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View Full Version : My favorite Italian car ever- The Lancia Delta Integrale series


Mopar68
Nov 15, 2005, 11:10 PM
Nobody thinks of Lancia anymore. Everyone seems to be caught up in those other Italian companies. Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo. I'll have none of that. No, I'm Lancia all the way. They have a great racing history, even if it's pretty much over looked. Any body remember the Lancia Stratos rally car? Without a doubt, it was the most beautiful rally car of all time. How bout the S4 or Beta Monte Carlo? They dominated the group B class after the shock of the Audi Quattros. What about the Lancia LC2? The amazingly gorgeous group C car was had a 800hp Ferrari engine and was bliteringly quick.

But what about the most successful car in Lancia history? What about the car that made Lancia the most successful company in WRC history? What about the best hot hatch ever made?

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8554/1024deltahfintegraleevoiigiall.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1024deltahfintegraleevoiigi all.jpg)

Ladies and gentleman, say hello to the 6 time WRC world champion Lancia Delta Integrale series. Here's a little history before I rave about how cool this car is:

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8237/8v7fs.th.jpg (http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8v7fs.jpg)

That yellow car in the first picture is a Delta Integrale 16v Evolution II. It was one of the last of the series, and is regarded as the best. This second red car was one of the first of the series, and uses an 8v inline-4 engine.

-In 1986, the Delta 4WD was introduced. Besides the addition of 4WD and a turbocharged engine, it looked just like the regular Delta. The power output from the 2 liter 8v turbo was 165hp and 150hp in it's "green" version (having the catalytic converter and emissions stuff). Not too bad for 1986

-Next we have the Integrale 8v and 16v, introduced in 1987. These featured new suspension settings, wider wheel arches and a decent increase in power. The 16v engine produced a very healthy 200hp, while the 8v produced 185hp. Lancia didn't make a "green" version of the 16v, so the 8v "green" produced about 178hp, which was great in my opinion.

-The Delta greatly improved in 1991 when Lancia introduced the Evoluzione model. It featured a wider track and arches, different suspension mount points, more suspension travel and even more power. 210hp in the 16v models. However, Lancia still didn't make a 16v "green" version, but the new 8v produced 185hp, which again, is still healthy, even for todays standards.

So, after that, Lancia made the Evo two, which was basically the same, except with slightly modified engine management and a smaller turbo. Output was boosted by 5hp in the 16v version, but it produced a significantly more user friendly car. However, it was noticeably slower and less fun.

So now you know the basic history. It was also amazing in WRC, as mentioned a little bit before. It had 46 wins, and 6 championships under it's belt. As a race car, it was rock solid, and more simple than the Escort Cosworth RS race cars. It was more realiable, and was supposed to be very powerful.

But why do I love it? Well, from what I've read, it's supposed to be one of the best handling cars in the world. The steering response is spot on, and you can feel every bump through your fingertips. However, you can still drive it with a pinky. The actual cornering physics are typical 4WD turbocharged car. If you brake too late, it'll snap at you, and the car produces understeer when entering a corner and oversteer when exiting. This is due to the power shift between the front and rear wheels.

The engine, in my opinion, is the best turbocharged inline-4 in existance. It's supposed to be rather realiable. I mean, it's an Italian car, so it's not going to be a freaking civic. But it's still good. The 8v engines, suprisingly enough, were supposed to be the most fun to drive. This was to do the larger turbo and higher boost pressure. It produced more engine response in the higher rev ranges, where the engine was kept in hard driving. The 16v is more manageable, but not as "savage" as some owners put it.

You've also got the looks. I think it's a timeless design. It'll never grow old. It's the best looking hatchback ever, and I think you'd be nuts not to agree. It's bold and brash, but at the same time sane and pretty plain.

Plus, you got the price. There are plenty of these around, cause 47,787 were produced. They're easy to find in Europe (as far as I know), and they're probably pretty cheap to maintain. And what about performance? Well, in it's Evo II form, it'll do 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds, and the Evo I might be quicker. He'll, it'd keep up with some of the Ferrari's of the day for a mere fraction of the cost.

But you have to keep in mind that this car is infact Italian, so you're going to get some problems. They've had electrical problems, such as the wipers not working in the wet, even if they do in the dry. The engines, no matter how great I thought they were, are a little fragile. Gearboxes wore out faster than normal, but not insanely fast. Rust, of course, was a bit of a problem, but again, not horrible.

Overall, it's the best hatchback ever made, if not the best Italian car ever made. It was around for eight years, which says alot for the time.

So I beg you all, please discuss. Do you agree? Have you learned anything? Am I full of bull?

Most of all, I'd like to prove my opinion invalid. The Delta Integrale series is the best Italian car ever, and the best Hatchback ever. Is there anything wrong with that?

1mic
Nov 15, 2005, 11:32 PM
obx used to own an integrale, i dont know how he got it legalized for US standards... i think they're nice, and reminds me of the vw scriocco (dont know which came out first).

Ghalos
Nov 15, 2005, 11:44 PM
Sounds neat, I've heard some info about it in passing, personally, when it comes to rally of that era, aside from not knowing much, I'd have to go with the Renault R5.

But as for the Lancia:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6277818067873845602&q=lancia+delta+integrale

It's a quick car, no question, and it's no doubt a bit of fun. But I'm more of a current car fanatic, they might be a bit heavier, but good reliability and more options like good music to go along with the good drive, it's too much for me to pass up for a lighter somewhat more fun drive. The styling, it's ok, like the EVO and STI of today, AWD, turbo and chunky styling, it's also like an Enzo in a "form follows function" so while I can appreciate it, I'm not *passionate* about it's lines.

It's a neat car, not a favorite, but glad I heard more about it.

NV85
Nov 16, 2005, 12:15 AM
That's an amazing car, one of the best Lancias ever made. Why Lancia stopped doing such amazing cars like the Delta? Now they are just doing "luxury" cars based on FIAT models.

dpala1
Nov 16, 2005, 1:06 AM
too old school...my fav italian car...550 Maranello

lambo or holden
Nov 16, 2005, 1:39 AM
I can see where you are coming from but I don't really like it.
I'm not a fan of old fashion cars. Sounds pretty good for it's time.

dpala1
Nov 16, 2005, 1:56 AM
^i agree with your there

v@nQu!$h~$
Nov 16, 2005, 7:18 AM
Not really my type.....But it sure was a good car for its time i guess...

Metallica Forever
Nov 16, 2005, 7:41 AM
WOW...something from the black and white TV ere???Hmmm....I wonder!20 yers from now,will the next generation look at the Porsche CGT and being disgusted at the looks of it.

Aleksander
Nov 16, 2005, 11:07 AM
It's a great car, no question about it
and I can understand why you are so passionat about the car

I like it alot and I agree about the design
it's great and it's probably one of the best looking hatchbacks in the world
combine that with the handling of a Super car, and you've got the Delta Integrale
and not to mention that it's was cheap too

For the used car market,
here in europe the newer generation of the Delta is actually cheaper
then the older generation Delta, mentioned in this thread
The newer generation sells for a price around €5000

This is the newer generation wich I don't think looks as good as the older one
http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/4532/5529362028mj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The rally version ,the one with Martini sponsoring costs around €25.000 to €100.000
The car became a collectors item

for example, a Delta Evo from '92 with 100.000km still sells for a price of around 15.000 €
I think that says a lot about the car
However the 1.6 and non evoluzione versions, you can find for around €2.000

It's really a special car, because I don't know any other hatchback in the world
that is this old and still sells for this price
It holds it's value very well

btw, great thread, this car certainly deserves to have one on SCF

Mopar68
Nov 16, 2005, 12:09 PM
I don't understand why everyone is saying that this is an "old car". It's like, 15 years old. The last one came off the assembly line in 1994.

And Ghalos, it came with a radio. It's not like it was totally stripped.

monkeyfkker
Nov 16, 2005, 12:10 PM
My favorite Italian car is of course the X1/9, but I do love the Lancia's. They're great rally cars and can be made into wonderful drift cars. That and they're as reliable as an Italian car can be.

Aleksander
Nov 16, 2005, 12:18 PM
I don't understand why everyone is saying that this is an "old car". It's like, 15 years old. The last one came off the assembly line in 1994.

And Ghalos, it came with a radio. It's not like it was totally stripped.

Well, it is from the 80's

People call the BMW E30 old too,
but that doesn't mean it's bad or it doesn't look good
so it's not that big of a deal

Tom Kristensen
Nov 16, 2005, 2:48 PM
My favorite Italian car ever- The Lancia Delta Integrale series Damn! Would you take that car over a F40, Enzo, Maranello, Murciélago, Diablo, or Countach!:eek:

Driftster
Nov 16, 2005, 2:53 PM
people don't think of the lancia anymore because the Delta intergale was like the only model that was worth the $...everyone else was slow and unreliable..

but The Delta was a beast!!!
go lancia!


my fav italian car.......

F40

Subaru2005
Nov 16, 2005, 3:15 PM
my favourite italian car would be a ferrari 360cs with a pepperoni pizza in the passenger seat! :) lol

the lancia was a great rally car bk in the day!

Mopar68
Nov 16, 2005, 4:16 PM
Damn! Would you take that car over a F40, Enzo, Maranello, Murciélago, Diablo, or Countach!:eek:

Don't be silly. No fool would do that. If someone gave me the choice of whether I wanted the Lancia or a Lamborghini, I'd obviously choose the latter. It's common sense.

Driftster
Nov 16, 2005, 4:23 PM
I love people who do that..

"i love smart cars"

dork: "So you'd take a Smart car over a mclaren a supermodel and 50 tons of gold!!!"

Dimitris
Nov 16, 2005, 5:18 PM
Lancia Delta Integrale was and is a very nice car i see every day 2 of them a yellow one with T3 tourbine....and a red

Attaus
Nov 16, 2005, 10:41 PM
I dont think you are full of bull at all, there's no doubt about it, the Lanica is an impressive car, no matter which way you look at it. The performance of it beats any modern hatch today. Many of the new "hot hatches" are running mid to high 6's to 60, in which the Lancia ran a 5.5, about the same as an M3 sedan. The Group B class is in my opinion, one of the most competitive. Unlike the C class with big horsepower cars trying to out muscle each other, the B class was about being the most innovative and resourceful. Its sort of like todays standards. Nascar, for example. The cars are all limited to the same power and weight, but they have little things to toy with to make their car just that much faster. These things were agressive beasts, to say the least. It has a predator like stance, and I could see how this would be an excellent handling car. Its impressive, but certainly not my favorite. I can sympothize with the fact that you want to make a statement, but I can only classify the Lancia as an impressive feat for Italia, just think of all of the classics Italy has chourned out.. there's just too many. I must commend you though, on another very well written topic.

Kirstyn
Nov 16, 2005, 11:02 PM
Wow, I wouldsa' thought more people would know about this one.
Yeah, it's a sweetass car. 'Specially in black. I love it with the racing paint scheme.
I do love Tom's pics of the Deltas from that one event.

TORINO 380W
Nov 17, 2005, 7:06 AM
I will agrey withe you, the lancia integrale is the best italian car ever, beuase it is relativly cheap, but it haves the performanc that cut chanleng moust car frome now a days.

pilone
Nov 17, 2005, 2:02 PM
That car has really good perfomances but I don't like how it looks...

:driving

Mopar68
Nov 17, 2005, 7:48 PM
I'm suprised more people don't like the looks. I love them.

And you have to really respect this car. I mean, when a new "hot hatch" comes out with a little over 200hp, everyone says "it's cool, but it should be AWD". Well, here you go. It can still eat modern hot hatches alive. Most can only hope to do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. This one can do 0-60 in about 5.5.

Attaus
Nov 17, 2005, 11:13 PM
Wait.. people actually know the difference between 4WD and AWD now? I think i'm going into shock..

S7TT
Nov 18, 2005, 12:37 AM
4WD can be turned off and AWD is all time...right?

Attaus
Nov 18, 2005, 5:45 PM
I take that back..

Mopar68
Nov 18, 2005, 7:01 PM
I take that back..

Does it really matter?

Type_R
Nov 19, 2005, 12:57 AM
I don't know much about it,
I've just seen a Top gear video on the car.
All I know is that it's an amazing car for rallying.

BTW they don't make it no more?
Why did they stop?

12 inch pianist
Nov 19, 2005, 1:27 AM
Wow, I wouldsa' thought more people would know about this one.
Yeah, it's a sweetass car. 'Specially in black. I love it with the racing paint scheme.
I do love Tom's pics of the Deltas from that one event.
For someone who lives in Texas you love your black.

Mopar68
Nov 19, 2005, 3:51 PM
I don't know much about it,
I've just seen a Top gear video on the car.
All I know is that it's an amazing car for rallying.

BTW they don't make it no more?
Why did they stop?

It was probably becoming really outdated. I mean, you can't really teach an old dog new tricks, so it was time to put it to rest. An 8 year life span for a car with the same sort of bodystyle is pretty decent.

Attaus
Nov 19, 2005, 7:37 PM
Does it really matter?

I'm sorry the focus was taken off of you.

continue

Mopar68
Nov 19, 2005, 8:31 PM
I'm sorry the focus was taken off of you.

continue

Don't be a smart ass. I was just asking a simple question. It wasn't with an attitude. I'm honestly asking you, does it really matter? Is the difference that significant?

Jeez. I'm not THAT much of an ass.

Attaus
Nov 19, 2005, 8:39 PM
Yes, there is a big difference. 4WD is a crappy tool that SUVs use at low speeds to get out of ditches, and AWD is a complex system that rally cars and normal cars use to get better traction at higher speeds.

4WD - Front and rear drive shaft are locked, but independant of each other. The front two wheels and the rear two wheels spin at the same rate, but the front wheels and rear wheels spin at different rates.

AWD - All wheels operate independantly of each other at all times.

Im only upset because ive explained this about 6 or 7 times. I dont mind explaining it, but most of the time, nobody listens.

SteveFX
Nov 20, 2005, 8:09 AM
Good on ya', Mopar! You're going to get flack about a 20-year-old AWD factory hotrod shoebox from non-driver/page-flippers ("I like the 550 Maranello"), but keep the obscurities coming. I mean that

Kudos too to Attaus for thoughtful commentary and comic relief. For the record, most 4WD truckers scoff at ABS... "Lock the fronts+lock the rears; what's the difference?" It actually feels like that at low speeds on 2-3" of snow.

-----

A kewl fact about the Delta Integrale is that it used Ferguson viscous coupling for the front/rear torque split; and a Gleason Torsen (torque sensing) differential in the rear. Front diff was open.

If the Delta Integrale was at Turin in 1986, I missed it. I had eyes only for the Delta S4's..., in Rally and "street" versions. Mea culpa.

Mopar68
Nov 20, 2005, 5:53 PM
They had street versions of the S4's? Wow. And I couldn't imagine this being some huge thing when it was introduced. I might be wrong.

Attaus
Nov 20, 2005, 9:39 PM
Kudos too to Attaus for thoughtful commentary and comic relief. For the record, most 4WD truckers scoff at ABS... "Lock the fronts+lock the rears; what's the difference?" It actually feels like that at low speeds on 2-3" of snow.

What are you saying? That makes no sense.. Yes, 4WD helps at lower speeds to help get traction.. like, if you are stuck in mud or snow, but other than that, you might as well be driving with RWD.

Mopar68
Nov 20, 2005, 10:08 PM
What are you saying? That makes no sense.. Yes, 4WD helps at lower speeds to help get traction.. like, if you are stuck in mud or snow, but other than that, you might as well be driving with RWD.

He's talking about brakes.

Attaus
Nov 20, 2005, 11:58 PM
Well, I saw ABS in there, but what does that have anything to do with snow? Or 4WD for that matter?

Oh you, Steve. Always keeping us on our toes.

Mopar68
Nov 21, 2005, 10:45 AM
Well, I saw ABS in there, but what does that have anything to do with snow? Or 4WD for that matter?

Oh you, Steve. Always keeping us on our toes.

To tell you the truth, I honestly don't get it either. Something about locking the brakes in the snow. Sorry steve.