Waht do you guys think of the new Chris Bangle designs? Do you think the 5 series is a turn for the best or worst? What about the 7 series or Z4? Do you think it will be pushed out of the limelight as the best german sedan or saloon maker? You decide.

BMW of course ....
the preformance the power the design :twisted:

I am a fanatic supporter of BMW. My father ows a 330Ci '00, and back in the '80's, when he was leaving in the States, he had a 2002turbo. So we know from first hand how the BMW's cars r. Over the years and having seen a lot of BMW's cars i had the impression that the bmw had two main charateristics. It had the amazing ability to "marry" with a superb way, the sportivness with the seriousness. This was it's main characteristic. This was it's company's identity. I will give u a recent example. The last generation of 5 series(not the new one), especially after the very slight facelift, was a car that had beautiful lines, strict but at the same time sport. A true Bavarian design. But from the new 7 series and on, things changed. It seems like bmw is scetching a new design route. More "weird", more" futuristic". And i can't say i like it. I am 20 years old. And i liked the last " true" 5 series and 7 series a lot.... :cry:

i agree about the 7 series...
but from the new 5 series i only saw pics... and it look pretty good to me...
but its not like seeing it on the road...
so i guess when i do see the car i and everyone else could just its design ... :roll:

Id have to say BMW alos- though im just as big a fan of Audi... id place mercedes 3rd - they dont really do anything of real note in comparision.

the new 5 series i only saw pics... and it look pretty good to me...

Ahh - the new 5 series is a disaster! It looks fat and clumsy. The new E class is miles ahead - I think the 5 series streak has come to an end with the new one!!

I dont see hwy BMW decided to tamper with the perfect formulae they have with the 3 series and had with the old 5 series. :(

I agree with mallon. The 5 series is pretty bad. But, i heard the new M5 will have a 550hp V-10. Thats pretty wicked!

without doubt the new M5's performance will be better than before - its just aa waste of a V10 in such a bad looking car :?

who know, the M5 mght not be that bad looking. But there like, a hundred to one ratio it won't look good.

i guess so - maybe with a BMW bodykit it might shape up ok
But at the end of the day - it wouldnt be able to look better than the current M5.

I couldn't agree more than that with u mallon. Bimmer's executives, designers, staff, why did u made such a big designing turn? Why.... :cry: :cry:

who knows send a message to BMW's company!!
i still wont judge the car without seeing infront of me on a road...!

i like bimmer the best, but mercedez has some power now, that S/Ced V8's sound nice :twisted: but for the money, an audi is a better buy, almost equal performance great looks and fierce awd traction

Yeah Audi's ordinary range are better value for money - getting 4WD and stuff - but the RS/S ranges are similarly priced to BMW's M's - so Id have to take the M over the RS/S!

but if u leave the money aside... which do u prefer......
the price range is not that big .... so Bmw is better ...
although i once saw a comporation program on the TV between the 5seires and the RS6
... the RS beated the M a bit with the preformance but the guy who compared the cars said that he still prefered the M over the RS6....! :lol:

yeah that's what im saying - despite performance e.t.c. id have the M5, since the prices between the m5 and RS arent that different

The new BMW 5 looks a kind of wired to me too, for me i have to see the car in person i don't just judge stuff in pics most of the time, i don't think it's going to be that bad when it comes out at the end it is still a BMW, i dont' think they will make them that bad that no one wants them.

BMW is changing its style as it seems ..
i saw the BMW 5 pics....
but still not the M5....when you see it i think it will probably be great!

i don't think it's going to be that bad when it comes out at the end it is still a BMW, i dont' think they will make them that bad that no one wants them.

of course not - but the problem is that they could make them so that you'd prefer a E55AMG[/quote]

They are taking risks, which is more than can be said for the others, and should be applauded. If they fail, they will try again, but at least they're trying... in the end, that means that they'll be setting the new standard, leaving others to catch up, while they fine tune (something they are quite good at).

I know what you mean - but there is taking risks and then there's being foolish!

Personally I think BM should have done more or less the same (what mercedes did)- and not going OTT, with the design.

I am almost willing to bet that BMW spends a lot of time making sure their risks are not foolish.

Plus, these cars look completely different in person. Recently I was able to compare a Z4 to a Boxster S in person, and while the S is obviously the better performer, I found the Z4 to be much more impressive visually. Some people find a certain amount of pride in driving cars that are different, and are, in their opinion, beautiful.

I've also have had the displeasure of seeing and sitting in the Z4 at the new york autoshow. It really isn't anyhting special. Infact, i have a problem with the armrest on each of the doors. You have to reach around the handle on the indent in the door to lock it or use the windows. The rear looks like they ran out of design space. It;s nose is really stubby and the rear is short. The seats are really hard and don't offer much support. And the poerplant figures aren't much to get excited about, even though it is very reliable and a solid pusher. It really isn't a very good looking car. It's really feminine looking. It looks fat and doesn't have any wheel arches are a frame angle. Definatly not my favorite car.

It's really feminine looking
Im not too convinced about the new styling at all - I woudlnt say it feminine though, I think it looks overly aggressive.

BMW makes some great sportscars (God I want an M3... :cry: ), however, in terms of quality and services Mercedes-Benz remains and will remain the world's leader.

i dont agree with that
BMW is better than Benz
But the Benz have the Status of a luxuary car more than the Bimmer....

however, in terms of quality and services Mercedes-Benz remains and will remain the world's leader.

Quality - in what way?

Its just build qualty, BMW's are nailed together than Mercs! - the ML class, you can pull the central console out with one hand (literally :?)
Taking the new 7 series v the S class - BMW have been using higher quailty materials.

In short I think BMW's have better build quality.

I agree with mallon and white night. BMW has better build quality. But not by much. Saying one german manufacterur has better quality than the other is like saying dark chocolate is better than milk chocolate. There isn't much of a diffrence.

Today I saw the new 6 series for the first time. It looks alot more mild than the other bangle designs. What is you take on this?

I meant that Mercedes cars have better mechanical parts and in terms of quality they are slightly better. I repeat, slightly better!
That's not only my personal opinion but also the opinion of many car magazine journalists.

i think that Merc only have better respectablt luxery image ...
nothing more

Mild?

http://www.discountpartcenter.com/photos/New%20BMW%20M6.jpg

thats not my idea of mild. but I know what you mean, can that is a suped up version...

BMW have been making alot of changes recently, and by 2006, they'll have doubled the amount of cars available since 2001 - not may car companies have expanded like that.

The new M1, it looks brilliant.
The 8 series and the 6 series I love, the best of the new BM's.
The X3, I dont like, nor do I see I reason for it.
The 1 series is ok - cool, but i dont normally think of a small hatch back when i think of BMW, itll take getting used to.


But thats why I like BMW, always making new orginal designs 8)

the X3 is out ...
if u want pics here is a link for an israely site ....but the pics are there and u can inlarge them ....

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2660404,00.html

the full introduction will be in frankfort ... i will be waiting to see ,

if u want more ask and i will try to translate the article for you..
or ask for anything specific ....

i think that Merc only have better respectablt luxery image ...
nothing more
This image was not created by luck... Anyway, they are both probably the best companies in the world. :roll:

guess you are right ...
by the way i like old benz ... we have a 1st hand benz 72 !!
almost new :) i like it .. and i think that merc went back to the old fashion cars with the round head light in the last E class

Mallon the M version of the 1 series will be based on the coupe model, which will be named 2 series. And the fast will be called M2. Don't forget that an M1 already existed, it was the first model to come from the M production line.

i think that Merc only have better respectablt luxery image ...
nothing more

YOU think that

Bimmers are great, but they are too expensive for their offer, i hate when i sit in my cousin's 540 and after some miles the oil leak here, the cluctch this and stuff, and it's 2001 model, the car is great, performance is very good, but quality is not what most people think, they last long.......with expensive maintenance

i dont think so ...
we had a BMW for 5 years ... it didn't see a garage only after it went 240000 kilos we had to have a gear repair (not change)
the thing is that u have to treat the car right and the maintenance must be good ...

:arrow: White-Night is right. If you treat the car right, there should be no problems.

Yes, i still think the 6 series is mild. not in the overall image. It doesn't look as ugly as a 7 or 5 or Z4 series. It fits it's persona better.

i think the Z4 rather looks good !

Indeed Mopar i find also the 6 a more pretty car than all the others. And isin't it a little muscular? Kinda aggresive looking car.

I personally think that the new M6 will be (overall) one of the best cars ever built.

Yeah, the 6 series is very muscular and bad (bad in a good way) looking. Although i still think it has that concept car figure. It needs to be a little less agressive. The wheels need to be smaller and the back end needs a more sane look. But, still, the best thing to come out of bangle's magic ideas for bimmer.

What matters to me more is what's under the hood, and it's gonna be great! :wink:

should check the site i found http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/6_01_bmw.htm

Heheh ur site V12, talks about an upcoming M7 :wink:

the M7 is great tooo :lol:

any reason for saying that White? :roll:

I personally love the styling - i seen an orange M7 - and apart from Lambo, it was the only car Ive seen that suits orange - it looked fantastic - big deep front spoiler, not dissimilar to the CSL. 8)

Got a pic, link whatever? :o

http://www.autothing.com/images/Fun%20Things/Spy%20Shots/BMW-03-M7/FT-SS-BMW03M7001.jpg

A little different to the one i saw - but its the same ball park. And this is computer generated :roll:

Full article here

www.autothing.com/funthings/ funthings-atnewsroom.htm

Oh this is the same with the one that xists in the site that V12 posted. Anyway, I've never heard about n M7 and to be honest it had never crossed my mind that BMW was going to make it...Is it necessary? Does this kind of car need an M version? I think that 760 is enough..

I dont think its neccessary wither, but now that I see it, I want it to come out - it looks like BMW's should!
And I guess they have to keep up with the souped up versions of the A*, and S class.

Yep I agree with NiGiz.

Does the S class has an AMG vers? Not the SL..The S class.

the reason is that i like the style mallon ...

my personal dream car was " a BIG LUXUARY SPORTS CAR"
i was thinking about 750i ... with some tunning :)
but i just saw the pics and its great !
dont know information though about the car :wink:

yeah, i think the s class has an AMG version, but who cares. I don't think an M7 would be very logical. Who would buy it? It would cost somehting in the range of $150,000 or somehting. Doesn't the 760 have a price tag of $100,000+? I think the M5 is big enough. The 7 series was never made to go fast. It was built to be luxerious.

Mopar just for curiosity, how much does the M3(e46) cost in the US? In Hellas it costs 100k Euros.

It proabably will have a price tag of $150K+. But no matter what they have to have a performance 7 series - even if it only is to keep up with Merc.s and Audi.

Does the S class has an AMG vers? Not the SL..The S class.
Yes, there's a S 55 AMG.

and there are guys who love BIG sports cars !
Just like me !

I think the M3 is about $40,000. I think it might be a little less. The M5 is more around $75,000. So think of how much the M7 would be!

I think the M3 is about $40,000. I think it might be a little less. The M5 is more around $75,000. So think of how much the M7 would be!
$40000 for the M3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

yeah its got to be more than that. Here in the uk, its that number of pounds.

Sorry. I was wrong. The M3 is $47,195.

yeah, i think the s class has an AMG version, but who cares. I don't think an M7 would be very logical. Who would buy it? It would cost somehting in the range of $150,000 or somehting. Doesn't the 760 have a price tag of $100,000+? I think the M5 is big enough. The 7 series was never made to go fast. It was built to be luxerious.

The reason of BMW not making an M7 is pretty simple, it HAS to outperfrom the M5, and the next M5 will have a V-10, also it has to have manual transmision, and high rewing engine, the 760 is fast enough, thy're not intended for racing

i dont' know man i would get the M7 if it would come out really soon!
if you go into the car and sit there check everything out. you will like the car and it really worse that much money. and the M7 is gona look much sporty than M3 and M5 just because it's much bigger car and oh yea if u are in US. a fully loaded M3 is gona cost u around $60000.

...I dont think an M7 would look more sporty than an M3.

And if you are serious about getting an M7, you may wait a few years and quadrouple your budget. :shock: :x

in a couple of years there will not be any more M3 ...
the company dicided that the series must come to an end ...
and there will be a new M4 not 3 series ...

but i still think the M7 is a great Sports car ...

in a couple of years there will not be any more M3 ...
the company dicided that the series must come to an end ...
and there will be a new M4 not 3 series ...

but i still think the M7 is a great Sports car ...

Are you 100% sure about that, i read about the next M3 somewhere, i don't think they'll kill the M3, it's quickly becoming a performance benchmark, and the car to beat by most manufacturers

yep im pretty sure ...
after 20 years of age for the M3 it will be replaced by the M4 !
the new outcomping M4 will have a V8 engine just like Audi S4 .. by the way Merc is going to make a new AMG V8 engine for the C class .
as it seems the sidans will stay with single numbers ...3 5 7 ... and the coupe's will be as in double (in 2's) 4 6 8 ...
the M4 will also have an SMG gearbox but it will be faster than the current one . :twisted:

Faster than the current one?? The current one changes gears in 0.08 seconds!!! :shock: :shock:

yep ..... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
imagine what kind of a car it will be :twisted: :twisted:

... :shock:

I really don't know if the next gen M3 is going to be named M4. I know about the new name policy that BMW has chosen, and based on that the new M3 should be called M4. But the logo M3 has become a tradition...And besides the M3(E36) did come out also in 4doors version...

who needs to change gears in 0.08 seconds? That car must have 10,000hp or somehting. I think it might be a little overkill.

the amount of horsepwoer doesnt change the spped iit changes gear! And no-one needs to change gear in 0.08 seconds, in the same way no-one needs more than 100BHP or leather seats or power steering. :)

the amount of horsepwoer doesnt change the spped iit changes gear! And no-one needs to change gear in 0.08 seconds, in the same way no-one needs more than 100BHP or leather seats or power steering. :)

yes you do need :) im having a hard time living with a 170Hp and a real HEAVY car ... but 100 hp !! its good for just transportatin ... but i dont see the cars only as a transportation machiens :wink:

Wow, everyone count their posts on this one. I'd dare say ten per person :P
HUGE Topic, maybe it needs to be kept down to the subject at hand. There is a Comparo. forum you know...
I'm just going to comment on the new styling, we are are in pretty unanimus agreement of BMW's basically infalliable engineering :wink:
First of all, I'd not think it a good marketing sheme to simply tweak and clip the design of your car for more than, say, 4-5 years. BMW decided to do a rad redesign job to try to upgrade the look like all other car companies do at some point. I'll admit I dislike the Z4. But every other new model has had a very cool look to it. The headlights are the best part, look like friggin bengal tiger eyes, very mean and agressive to go along with the killer power under the hood. The rear ends could be a little more intuitive, they seem to be more on the geometrically correct, rather tha aesthetically, but they don't look increibly bad. The lines match the cars engineering prowess, in my opinion. And hey, they might just change the styling up again in a few years and coem out with something that will bring the old loyalists back in droves. Here's hoping...

Thanks, I try to think alot about the questions i post.

We shouldn't get too personal about all this. Bangle's job is to propose designs. It's up to the BMW board to accept or reject them.

Having said that, something clearly has to change. I'm on my 4th BMW, all pre-Bangle, and it will be the last, at least for now. The reason is simple - the Bangle-led styling. Oh, and the interiors, which have lost that surrounding, cosseting feel. I could even live with the I-drive.

It's not so much the Bangle concept - more the clumsy execution. The 5,6,and 7 all suffer from the akward, tacked on rear-end that simply destroys all flow and balance. This is underlined by the fact that the the Touring version of the 5 is actually quite attractive.

The new 3 is better (well less bad) but the rear end still looks like it came from the orient in the 1980s.

Sadly, the X3 is simply hideous and beyond redemption, not to mention poorly positioned - you can get the far superior big-brother X5 for only slightly more money - and, by most accounts, a mediocre drive.

I have no proof of whether or how much BMW sales have suffered from their current policy - I just can't believe I'm the only loyalist to have been completely turned off in this way. It doesn't need another revolution, or even a serious admission of error - just some refinement, inside and out.

The Z4 (not an option for me) is the one Bangle design to show what can be achieved - still different, but also elegant and purposeful. The facelift to the 7, while nowhere near enough, at least gave cause for hope.

Is anyone at BMW listening, or are the ostriches still just chanting the 'different, therefore brave and better' mantra? Now, where's that Audi showroom...?

I voted Audi.

I love BMW, but lately Audi just keeps on impressing me more and more. Great engines, great quality, simple but effective looks. They just work, so to speak.

Damn i was really looking forward to this thread. Then I saw the date... Bah.

I voted Mercedes-Benz by the way.

Holy jesus! I remember this. Man, this is back when I actually cared about BMW.

Anyways, I'd like to lock it, but some people look interested. I'll keep it open for the time being.

Oh, and the interiors, which have lost that surrounding, cosseting feel. I could even live with the I-drive.

Couldn't agree more, interior wise.


From my point of view (as you've already said) the interiors both looked and felt, enclosing and surrounding- kind of like a warm hug from BMW.

Now the new interiors feel distant and awkward- kind of like they're pushing you away. They also look extremely tall.

Holy jesus! I remember this. Man, this is back when I actually cared about BMW.

Anyways, I'd like to lock it, but some people look interested. I'll keep it open for the time being.You don't have to keep it open, just because I said I was looking forward to it:p

bmw always liked the stylin still do good engine's sporty nature good sound its just the best in germany(my opinion)