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| Thread "Steering techniques" in the General forum. ... General posts about sports cars are welcomed here. Also the place to discuss automotive related events. |
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#1 |
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Starting Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
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Do you think that a specific technique is in order for steering your car?
Writing in a sports car forum, I would guess to each member has probably adopted his own favorite style of steering -- which is a good thing -- but still, here are some guidelines on the different techniques, and, eventualy, reconmendation for a combined set of method that will improve your laps by tens of precents. 1. Fixed-input steering This is a simple enough technique. It involves putting both hands on the wheel and swinging it with both hands. This is the best steering method in terms of control and accuracy, but it has very limited leverage, particularly in the popular 10 to-2 or 8 to-4 positions. Many people would settle for the 10 to-2 position (which is more comfortable) and some would maintain the 8 to-4 position (which is alledgly safer), saying that it is enough, but in each of the position, not only is you leverage limited, but you control, feedback, balance and turning force are also damaged and you are in peril of hitting an inflating airbag (which deploys at more than 300mph) with your hands (in the 10 to-2 position) or braking your thumbs (in both position). Conclusion: When driving in the open road, hold the wheel in 9 and 3. This way you have full control, 270 degrees of leverage, and easy access to lights, blinkers and etc. You can also put you thumbs in the designated positions on the crossbrace (unless you go off road) below the "bumps" on the inside of the rim. Plus, you are safe from the airbag. This method is the best for evasive manouvers, and for whenever you are traveling in a generally straight line, only switiching lanes or following the road. For steering through actual turns and bends, however, a more complex hand work must be applied: 2. Hand over-hand steering This method is the simple and traditional method, of rotating the wheel by crossing your hands one over the other for quick and powerfull turning. The result is, however, that even for very slight turn-in amplitudes, you find yourself pulling and pushing endlessly, thus making the action un-smooth, tiresome, and inaccurate, especially if you hook the hands inside the wheel. 3. Hand to-hand steering This is a newer practice that involves "feeding" the wheel by shuffling the hands, pulling down from 12 O'Clock, and alternating grip to the opposite hand, on the opposite side of the wheel, pushing up from 7 O'Clock or so. With practice, both hands move parallel and the action is very smooth. It's generally better than the hand over-hand method, because it usually involves larger movements and less pushing. However, it is slow and somewhat unnatural, and it's not ideal since you are still making several movements of pulling and pushing. 4. Push and control steering This is a method some race drivers use. In this method, you are not pulling and pushing, but instead, you only make one long pushing movement. You move the hand in the direction of the bend above the stationary hand, and push with both of them. This method gives you great force for quick turn-in with a steady wrist, but you lose feedback and smoothness, and you can find youself at the edge of the leverage quite quickly, even in a race car, and much more on a road car. 5. Dual-movement steering This is another method popular in race driving. This time, however, the whole movement is done with both hands, in two movements. The idea is to increase the leverage you have in the fixed-input steering from the 9 to-3 position, by sliding both hands on the wheel, opposite to the direction of the turn, and than swinging the wheel back to 9 to-3 with both hands, so the car is turning, but now you are again holding the wheel on both sides in 9 to-3, so you can quickly and easily make large adjustments and correction to the steering input. This method, however, requires two movements. And by the end of the first movement, you still haven't moved the wheel at all, so you make the action slower, and you lose the "center" of the wheel so you need to "feed" it back, shuffle steering style. You also don't have much leverage from this method, so it's only useful for wider corners. 6. Pull steering This is a classic Rally driving technique, with quite a lot of practice in other sorts of motorsport and even in road driving. It is considered to be the best technique. I have always used it, although in conjunction with other techniques, and it has never failed. Like the dual-movement method, this technique is also about making a preparation movement, so that after you turn the wheel just enough to get the car to follow the desired line through the corner, you are again in the 9 to-3 position. However, in this method, to differ from the "push and control" style, the leading hand is the pulling hand. Pulling allows you to use the gentle muscles and nerves of the arm and palm, allowing for smoothness and control, while also using the strong muscles of the back, allowing for a quick and decisive turn-in when nessecary. With a bit of practice, you can keep the wrist of the pulling hand quite firm, to optimize control. While pulling, the opposite hand stays stationary, thus allowing for the rim to slide under it in a controlled fashion. All that is left to do, is to preposition the pulling hand accordingly (top of the wheel for a 90 degree turn of the wheel, above the stationary hand for 180 degrees, on the bottom for 270 degrees), and than pull back to it's point of origin in 9 or 3. This way, you can also undo the steering by pulling in a reversed order with the opposite hand, while the other hand stays stationary. This method also leaves you with a very good idea on where the wheels are pointing, and makes the hands work symetrically: when you turn-in, one hand pulls and the other stays still. Turn-out -- the opposite hand pulls back and the first hand is now the idle one. Following this method, you will probably realize that thus far you have the wheel too much and with excessive effort. I am always asked, how a manage to turn the car with such little steering inputs. Actually, only two successive 270 degrees turns, are enough to get a car across the sharpest U-Turns! For such a pull, however, the pulling hand must hold the wheel from it's bottom (not with the palm, it should be holding it upside down) and pull under the stationary hand, as it lift up momentarily. With this method, the turn-in is quite decisive and fast, almost sharp, while the reverse action, when retracting the steering input, is done slower. A decisive turn-in makes for a better response from the suspension, and also rubbs the tires against the surface, creating friction which slows the car down just enough to shift weight forward and over those front tires, to increase traction. For an example, here's a demonstration of that hand work being put out to use in an autocross: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6958388071529016124#doci d=8128919036513002319 I do still believe, that no technique is perfect. When following the road, switching lanes, or going through very small and fast curves, it's best not to insist on keeping the hands ready in 9 and 3, but to simply hold the wheel and turn it from the fixed-input. Wide turns, for an example, are better cornered with the dual-movement method. When manouvering in zero speed in the parking zone, the pulling method can be refined by palming the wheel entirely by the pulling hand, unless you have no power steering, whereas the hand to-hand method is ideal. |
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#2 |
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Psyclist
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,364
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you forgot two
The classic retarded getto steering: Where you lean back on your seat and hang on with one hand to the top of the streering wheel so you dont fall off and think you are cool. I dont know how to sit in a car steering: Were you sit right up to the steering wheel and you dont let your back touch the back of the seat. Then you lay one hand on the top of the steering wheel and try to drive. |
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#3 |
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Avatar Roulette
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 760
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I guess I don't use one particular style for the most part, but my hands are at 9 and 3 the whole way. If it is a wide turn then I do the hand shuffle thing, keeping my hands at the 9 and 3 position, but turning the wheel. It isn't the safest method per se, but that's only for the wide turns, everything else I keep my hands in the same spot on the wheel and my hands move with the wheel.
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-deviantART: Echo-Velocity |
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#4 | |
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Starting Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Say I was to go on the freeway. At the turn-in towards the access ramp, I need to turn wide left. Such a wide turn takes about 90 degrees of rotation. So, I hold the wheel at 9 to-3, and than slide both hands right, to 12 and 6 (top and bottom of the wheel), as I enter the corner, I steer the car with both hands untill they hit 9 and 3 (both sides, dead center). Now, I have turned the wheel, using both my hands, but I am again in the 9 to-3 position, and I can turn the wheel 270 degrees in each direction. Let's take a normal city corner, say to the right. For such a corner, a sharper turn, about 180 degrees, is nessacary. So, my left hand stays where it is in 9 O'clock, and the right hand moves just above it. Left hand let's the rim slide under it, while the right hand pulls back to 3 O'Clock. Now I'm again turning, but my hands are at 9 and 3. To bring it straight, I place the left hand ontop of the wheel, and pull down to 9. If you try this, you will find your car to be far more obedient and stable. It might take time, but it works out very well, talking from experimenting in all speeds (up to three digits), all different corners (Tight city U-turns, or track hairpins) , road conditions (wet, frozen, greasy) and car conditions (no power steering, a large steering ratio, requiring up to 360 degrees of rotation for city corners) Here are two foreign demonstrations of this style, one refering directly to it, and the other, about over-steer, showing counter-steering with that method (look betwee 2:02 to 2:20) |
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#5 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Astoria/Queens NY
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Why must you make fun of the ghetto style as I do drive that way ![]() I have realized I can steer and react better driving with one hand rather then driving with 2 hands. Now if your racing doing 100+ mph then yes you should be driving with 2 hands to have good control of your car. |
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#6 |
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DIY N/A RE 13B
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 47798 Germany
Posts: 5,006
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For everyday traffic I personally do not care how people use their steering wheel as long as they see the road from their seating position and are able to steer when they need to.
Sadly enough too many drivers do not manage to fulfill either of these requirements due to steering techniques 7 and 8 as illustrated by ChamoJB. I would really feel a lot safer if most people at least pretended to have listened to their driving instructor and keep one hand at the 10 o´clock position, the other at the 2 o´clock position (preferrably using the left resp. right hand for the positions in the order I listed the positions in) and when making a right turn use their left hand to feed the wheel into the direction of the right hand, using the right to grab the steering wheel as soon as the left hand passes the 12-1 o´clock position and return he left hand to the 10 o´clock position to continue the turn, using the opposite for a left hand turn. For track and rally racing, same should be practiced. Another important aspect is seating positions Sit in an upright position, arms agled with the elbows in a 100-90° angle, adjusting te seat close enough to te pedals to be able to completely press any of the pedals while still having the knee joint slighty bent. This would at least in everyday traffic allow people those drivers easily surprised by whatever happens around them (in general that´s traffic happening, overloading their senses and ability to respond) to have a good start towars avoiding accidents in actually having hands and feet on the correct positions. At the time I do not think much of the driving abilities and seating positions of people I see on the road. Too many silly accidents happening because people have to gather arms and legs looking for steering wheel and brake pedal shortly before the accident happens. Personally I sit as upright as my seat allows me, allowing me to control both pedals and steering wheel as described above. I generally however have my left hand on the 9 o´clock position and the right hand on the transmission as long as I´m driving autobahn or long stretches. As soon as I have to actually steer around corners I use above technique which is how to use a steering wheel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2floJTYe47c Above video demonstrates how this should look in practice
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If you can´t fix it with a hammer, you have an electric problem |
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#7 | |
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Coop DeVille
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Weston, Florida
Posts: 17,861
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Quote:
I do the same.. normally left hand at 9 o'clock, right hand on gear shift.. when negotiating a turn, right hand goes to 3 o'clock. and then when turning your cross hands, but never let them off the steering wheel.
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The closest thing they have to the Fit is the off button...- Evo |
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#8 |
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Official Tool of S.C.F.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: D.C.
Posts: 6,649
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You also forgot:
Knee Steering When both hands are occupied by something (I will not go into details...) one must resort to steering with their left knee. As you make a turn, you move your knee one direction or the other. It may be very dangerous, but who wants food all over the steering wheel? This gets to be very difficult when turning or driving a manual car. This method is not reccomended. On a more serious note, I dont really fall into any of those catagories. I use multiple styles, depending on what kind of driving I am doing. If I am on a tight, unfamiliar, curvy road, I'll use the Rally style driving. I also use that syle when I'm on the track, whenever possible. If I am just cruizing on the highway, I just use one hand, probably on the bottom of the wheel. It keeps me in a straight line, and my other hand is usually in position to make a sudden move if necessary. Cruizing around the city, making turns and such, I'll most likely use a combination of hand over hand and hand to hand. Not really sure how to explain it, but its pretty smooth and if feels right, which is the most important part.
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"He's a gorgeous man." - Evo |
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#9 |
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Bimmer DBAG
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my right hand shifts
my left index and thumb are at 10 oclock.. my elbows out the window and my heads in the clouds
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R.I.P. Randy |
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#10 |
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Starting Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
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I was also reffering to road driving (I tought it was clear). In different drills of defensive driving, correct wheel grip and turning technique are proven to have effected results in tens of precents. The 9 to-3 position, for instance, have been proven 30% more efficient than the 10 to-2 position. I'm not even talking about 8 to-4 or one-handed gripping. Gripping the wheel on the bottom is the worst thing you can do (besides "kneeing"), it allows for limited and un-balanced steering input, again with the shoulder muscles and with the risk of fractures.
I'm not too "conservative" that way, and I do believe that bein comfortable and relaxed is important (not to mention looking "cool"). So, when cruising down the open road, you can move for short periods of time for higher grips, maybe even to a one-handed operation, so long as it is meant to relax the muscles. I've already counted three people who "pull push" in this thread. Like I said, it's a good method, but not ideal. Try the "pull" style and you will eventually feel more comfortable and confident. It's not just a method for motorsport, it's very much adjusted for road driving. |
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#11 |
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DIY N/A RE 13B
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 47798 Germany
Posts: 5,006
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I do not mean to offend you in any way, but do you have a drivers licence?
I never found myself in a situation where turning the steering wheel brought me in a position where I risked fracture... I never had driver or passenger side airbags either, but always make certain my brakes work. Next time I´ll drive to the gas station I should really mount a camera in the car and post the results here. The reason why in serious driving pushing the steering wheel along is preferred over pulling it is because when pulling you attach your thumb far on the inside of the wheel, while when pushing you have most contact to the outside of the steering wheel. Why this is significant only shows when having an accident where the steering wheel is twisted around uncontrollably because of a change in teh angle of your front wheels, as is the case in most accidents. When having your thumb hooked into the steering wheel, this is where stuff will be fractured. As said, I do not mean to offend you, this just comes from well over 10 years of driving experience and listening to my driving instructor all these years ago.
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If you can´t fix it with a hammer, you have an electric problem |
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#12 |
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Coop DeVille
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Weston, Florida
Posts: 17,861
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^^^ 9 and 3 position... if its good enough for Scuderia Ferrari, its what I will use. who the hell invented the 10-2 anyways?
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The closest thing they have to the Fit is the off button...- Evo |
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#13 |
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Bimmer DBAG
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10-2 works better for steering a round wheeled car with a much worse steering ratio...
At 9-3 your right arm is at maximum travel alot sooner in the motion of a right turn than it would be at 10-2 same goes for a left handed turn..at 10-2 you can turn your hands to 2 and 6 before any extra effort..same goes for 6 and 10.. that's over 180 degree's of turning without moving your hand at 9-3 the most you get is 12-6 and 6 and 12 which is 180 degrees ![]()
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R.I.P. Randy Last edited by Driftster : Oct 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM. |
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#14 | |
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Official Tool of S.C.F.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: D.C.
Posts: 6,649
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Quote:
![]() When I have my right hand just to right of the bottom pillar on the steering wheel it works very well. I only use that if I'm going in a straight line. It keeps the wheel steady and relaxed. And about the "pull technique," I happen to know a few very good race car drives that use a "pull technique" when cornering tight corners. It is very effective. Oh, and they use the 9-3 position on the wheel, just above the side pillars of the steering wheel. Its not always what the "correct" techniques or positions are always, its what feels right to the driver. There can be exceptions however, a "gangster" look with the drivers seat touching the back seat and barely being able to see over the dash. That could be comfertable, but it is unsafe.
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"He's a gorgeous man." - Evo |
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#15 | |
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Starting Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
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Quote:
About the 10 to-2 and 9 to-3 positions, 10 to-2 is more comfortable, because the weight of the arms rests over the rim. Yes, it might increase the leverage of one of the arms, but you can see that the opposite hand is not traveling the same distance. Like I said, both hands are vertical (that's what I mean by "collapsing" into the corner), and can't compensate for one another. You lose feedback and control, and the whole mess lays entirely on your shoulders, thereby also putting you out of balance. It's not just about extended leverage, it's about smooth control. But, in 9 to-3, if you keep on turning, you will find out that you can reach 270 degrees of rotation, unlike the 190 degrees you would reach in 10 to-2. (In an F-1 there's no need for advanced steering techniques because the wheel bearly turns, so you use the fixed-input method all the way). |
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