Group B rally cars-passion and danger

Mopar68 · Aug 29, 2003, 10:40 PM

Does anyone know alot of info on the Group B rally car era? I know some, but i would really like to know more. It was such an interesting class, and it produced some of the most innovative cars, such as the Lancia Delta S4, which is both turbocharged and supercharged. My favorite Group B rally car was of course the Ford RS200 Evolution. The thing that intrests me on this subject is that manufacters were building faster and faster cars, but they didn't pay as much attention to the safety of the cars, much unlike todays WRC cars.

Alfa Romeo 156 GTA · Aug 30, 2003, 8:18 AM

Well i only know one thing about the Rally B group!

The Rally B group stopped Because The Italians were to fast!

The Lancia Stratos Engine came from Ferrari 288 GTO and HAs SOO fast that they decided to stop the championchip

LOSERS!! :P

Greetz :"Danny!

Schumi · Aug 30, 2003, 4:10 PM

I told you in a previous post that this wasn't the reason that Group B stopped.
The reason was:"A car left its way and fall on the spectators and killes some of them".
That's the reason.Italians were fast(Faster)but that wasn't the reason. :wink:

Mopar68 · Aug 30, 2003, 10:56 PM

that was one of the factors. One of the RS200 lept off the track and killed three people. The thing that killd the group b cars was the Lancia Delta S4 crash. It fell off a cliff i think and it burned so fiercly that it only left the frame. It killed Henri Toivonen (the driver) and Sergio Cresto (the navigator). They were probaly the best team in Rally racing ever. This made the officials realise that the group b rally cars were xtremely dangerous, and so they cancelled it. They then started the group S rally cars, but that was a flop and the cancelled it in like a month.

Does anyone have some good websites about this subject?

Should the FIA make a modern Group B class? If so, what cars should make the cut.

Schumi · Aug 30, 2003, 11:10 PM

I told you.That's the reason.
Well I think that FIA should make a group like this group B one.And the cars that will racing???
Huh...Hard question.
Something like the exact cars that race in this championship with horsepower.
Let's say a 600hp Subaru Impreza or something???

Alfa Romeo 156 GTA · Aug 31, 2003, 6:49 AM

okeej ... well my Ferrari DVD says thet AMAZING fast Ferrari engine was 1 thing why the group B stopped , but ok they could be wrong

greetz

anny!

Schumi · Aug 31, 2003, 4:22 PM

I think they are...Look this one::

@@
"Rallying has reached a point such that the speed limitation is the profile of the road. If everything goes right for the drivers, there is no more than two or three seconds of difference on a stage. Which means the judge is not the car, the tires, or the drivers - it is the road. They cannot go any faster!"

- Maurice Guaslard, former head of Michelin's rally program, 1986.

@@
Rallying today is growing in leaps and bounds; More manufacturers than ever are taking part in the world rally championship, and even more are participating in various national championships. Last year, 16.5 million people spectated at the 14 rounds of the WRC, the highest live attendance figure of any form of motorsport. The drivers are among the best in the world, and the cars are extremely quick and very entertaining to watch.

But there was a time when rallying was very different. The early 1980s saw a category created specifically for manufacturers who wanted to show off their engineering capabilities; Group B was born. The Group B rally supercars quickly evolved into 500+ horsepower, four-wheel-drive chest-thumping beasts with space frames, kevlar bodywork, and many other high-tech pieces. The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix. Nigel Mansell sampled a Peugeot 205 T16 and said it could out-accelerate his F1 car. And, perhaps most impressive (frightening?), the driver's reaction times were cut in half compared with previous rally cars. The Group B rally cars and their pilots were the stuff of which legends are made.

@@
The end of Group B
The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986.

Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out.
@@

hope you like it!

Schumi

Alfa Romeo 156 GTA · Sep 01, 2003, 11:57 AM

wow yeah....

There was one thing that shocked me :P

look :
the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road

WHAT :P Does anybody could ever imagine how amazing fast that is ? :P

WOW!
greetz : Danny!

Schumi · Sep 01, 2003, 2:20 PM

Yes, I didn't know that either.

jimkk29 · Sep 01, 2003, 5:44 PM

Is this really true? I seriously doubt it.

Schumi · Sep 01, 2003, 6:54 PM

See this...http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/history.html

jimkk29 · Sep 02, 2003, 6:04 AM

So where does it say that it could accelerate 0-100 in 2.3"?? I didn't find that.

Schumi · Sep 02, 2003, 12:06 PM

Look carefully ma pal...
The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix.

Mopar68 · Sep 02, 2003, 12:12 PM

this is sort of off topic, but you know what would be a good modern group B Rally car. The Skyline GTR. Think about it. They have more than 20 copies. It has 4wd. It's engine is capable of 500+hp. How cool would that be.

Schumi · Sep 02, 2003, 12:16 PM

LOL.This car is a boat for WRCing...

Aug 29, 2003, 10:40 PM	#1
Mopar68 The anti-hippie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Westfield, New Jersey Posts: 7,488	Group B rally cars-passion and danger Does anyone know alot of info on the Group B rally car era? I know some, but i would really like to know more. It was such an interesting class, and it produced some of the most innovative cars, such as the Lancia Delta S4, which is both turbocharged and supercharged. My favorite Group B rally car was of course the Ford RS200 Evolution. The thing that intrests me on this subject is that manufacters were building faster and faster cars, but they didn't pay as much attention to the safety of the cars, much unlike todays WRC cars. __________________ "....give it everything you've got cause it'll throw you back more than you could ever imagine." -WP

Aug 30, 2003, 4:10 PM	#3
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	I told you in a previous post that this wasn't the reason that Group B stopped. The reason was:"A car left its way and fall on the spectators and killes some of them". That's the reason.Italians were fast(Faster)but that wasn't the reason. :wink: __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Aug 30, 2003, 10:56 PM	#4
Mopar68 The anti-hippie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Westfield, New Jersey Posts: 7,488	that was one of the factors. One of the RS200 lept off the track and killed three people. The thing that killd the group b cars was the Lancia Delta S4 crash. It fell off a cliff i think and it burned so fiercly that it only left the frame. It killed Henri Toivonen (the driver) and Sergio Cresto (the navigator). They were probaly the best team in Rally racing ever. This made the officials realise that the group b rally cars were xtremely dangerous, and so they cancelled it. They then started the group S rally cars, but that was a flop and the cancelled it in like a month. Does anyone have some good websites about this subject? Should the FIA make a modern Group B class? If so, what cars should make the cut. __________________ "....give it everything you've got cause it'll throw you back more than you could ever imagine." -WP

Aug 30, 2003, 11:10 PM	#5
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	I told you.That's the reason. Well I think that FIA should make a group like this group B one.And the cars that will racing??? Huh...Hard question. Something like the exact cars that race in this championship with horsepower. Let's say a 600hp Subaru Impreza or something??? __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Aug 31, 2003, 4:22 PM	#7
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	I think they are...Look this one:: @@ "Rallying has reached a point such that the speed limitation is the profile of the road. If everything goes right for the drivers, there is no more than two or three seconds of difference on a stage. Which means the judge is not the car, the tires, or the drivers - it is the road. They cannot go any faster!" - Maurice Guaslard, former head of Michelin's rally program, 1986. @@ Rallying today is growing in leaps and bounds; More manufacturers than ever are taking part in the world rally championship, and even more are participating in various national championships. Last year, 16.5 million people spectated at the 14 rounds of the WRC, the highest live attendance figure of any form of motorsport. The drivers are among the best in the world, and the cars are extremely quick and very entertaining to watch. But there was a time when rallying was very different. The early 1980s saw a category created specifically for manufacturers who wanted to show off their engineering capabilities; Group B was born. The Group B rally supercars quickly evolved into 500+ horsepower, four-wheel-drive chest-thumping beasts with space frames, kevlar bodywork, and many other high-tech pieces. The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix. Nigel Mansell sampled a Peugeot 205 T16 and said it could out-accelerate his F1 car. And, perhaps most impressive (frightening?), the driver's reaction times were cut in half compared with previous rally cars. The Group B rally cars and their pilots were the stuff of which legends are made. @@ The end of Group B The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986. Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out. @@ hope you like it! Schumi __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Aug 30, 2003, 8:18 AM	#2
Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 768	Well i only know one thing about the Rally B group! The Rally B group stopped Because The Italians were to fast! The Lancia Stratos Engine came from Ferrari 288 GTO and HAs SOO fast that they decided to stop the championchip LOSERS!! :P Greetz :"Danny!

Aug 31, 2003, 6:49 AM	#6
Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 768	okeej ... well my Ferrari DVD says thet AMAZING fast Ferrari engine was 1 thing why the group B stopped , but ok they could be wrong greetz anny!

Sep 01, 2003, 11:57 AM	#8
Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 768	wow yeah.... There was one thing that shocked me :P look : the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road WHAT :P Does anybody could ever imagine how amazing fast that is ? :P WOW! greetz : Danny!

Sep 01, 2003, 2:20 PM	#9
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	Yes, I didn't know that either. __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Sep 01, 2003, 5:44 PM	#10
jimkk29 SCF Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 7,080	Is this really true? I seriously doubt it.

Sep 01, 2003, 6:54 PM	#11
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	See this...http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/history.html __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Sep 02, 2003, 6:04 AM	#12
jimkk29 SCF Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 7,080	So where does it say that it could accelerate 0-100 in 2.3"?? I didn't find that.

Sep 02, 2003, 12:06 PM	#13
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	Look carefully ma pal... The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix. __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

Sep 02, 2003, 12:12 PM	#14
Mopar68 The anti-hippie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Westfield, New Jersey Posts: 7,488	this is sort of off topic, but you know what would be a good modern group B Rally car. The Skyline GTR. Think about it. They have more than 20 copies. It has 4wd. It's engine is capable of 500+hp. How cool would that be. __________________ "....give it everything you've got cause it'll throw you back more than you could ever imagine." -WP

Sep 02, 2003, 12:16 PM	#15
Schumi Italian Freak Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece Posts: 1,933	LOL.This car is a boat for WRCing... __________________ Does your car have this engine? Does it have this stability on road? Does it have SOUL? ALFA 159

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