Attaus

Well, in that case,

There is a barrier on what to boost or not. You can get by on 10.5:1 and I have seen some rare cases of lightly boosted 11:1, but 12:1 and 13:1 just isn't practical. You would need an extremely strong motor and a near flawless tune. At that point, it's worth it to drop the compression a few points. It just isn't that practical.

Slow, I say we end this discussion right here. I'm way too tired to continue this, nor do I want to insult you or argue anymore. I respect you as a member and would hate to destroy that over a dumb argument. I withdraw any spiteful comments I may have made, they were just in the heat of things.

The only thing I ask that you take from this argument is that these motors are much stronger than most give them credit for. I know they aren't super, nor do I think they are in any way better than a 5.0, for example, but I do highly respect them for their capabilites. Squeezing 400 hp per liter on a fairly streetable motor is very impressive.


Heretic- In the phsyics of internal combustion engines, yes, they are similar. However, this is more about how well an engine can hold that power. This changes from motor to motor. Ringlands don't crack in boosted 5.0's (that I am aware of). You are talking about a number, but this number can change due to power levels, amount of boost, the hundreds of different tunes, etc.

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"Political discussion are like Nyquil." - Rav

slowfiveoh

No problem.

It just upsets me that people put so much emphasis on engine differences when in reality, they're all pretty much the same, or at least the technology can be applied to whatever.

Happy to see you are mature enough to retract any statements, and I certainly do as well. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, I poke and prod to get someone to break and start thinking rationally. Think of it as a "Drill Sergeant" mentality. I am ex-military ya know. LOL

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The 305 was a severe POS... Especially next to the Ford 302. -- monkeyfkker

bossesjoe

Exactly, I just looked up a Honda engine sold during the years we're talking about with a high compression ratio. I don't claim to have any Honda knowledge at all, but from what I do know that Honda changes compression ratios with trim models to boost output and from ICE fundamentals that boosting high static compression ratios will screw up the engine at different altitudes.

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10mm and SBC for life! -Infernal Combustion

BofoMills

Looking at the wrong car buddy. Name these 10 sec civics you claim with great take off..


I could of sworn, mis shifting into a lower gear while driving it real hard (i've done it before) will serious throw the balance off your internals.. I've seen bent crankshafts and snapped camshafts in my dads shop. I don't know my dad may be wrong but can someone tell if it actually is that bad ?

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"OMG ROFFLECOPTOR THE FBODY IS POOPSICLES!" -Slow5.0

monkeyfkker

I'm not ready to end this... There are very few people on the internet who I respect. Slow happens to be one of them... Even if he is a Ford fan. Not only is he a mod but he knows a whole lot more about cars than most. Therefore I have to express myself. Then we can end this...

Actually, I designed that dyno sheet... I knew you'd have some smart ass thing to say about it. It was set up with well above 5 psi dumb ass...

Uh, actually they do. I see it at the track all the time...

Let's tell a mod the shut the fu*k up... that just show's your intelligence... or lack there of

At the 9:1 compression you keep talking about, 112 isn't neccessary. And what exactly is 112+? Please enlighten me... There are fuels with a higher motor octane rating than 112 but nothing that you would have the balls to put in a Honda...

You clearly have never seen/raced/driven/read anything at all... If you miss a shift at full power in a real race car and throw the cam up to 12000 rpm, something bads gonna happen... Duh, my name is Attaus...

You're a friggin idiot... Well versed in Hondas??? You mean you read some magazines and web sites... You've got a lot to learn, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make that

Um, yes it does make them stronger. That's physics you dumb ass

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Refrain from posting once in a while. - VTEC Drams

Driftster

^^^100% right..

Think about it Attaus....I LOVE honda's to death, and i'm sick of people talking crap about em, but facts ARE facts...

4 cylinders are capable, but it's still in a different league...yeah they go head to head on alot of occassions...but they are still diff classes..

Simple real life relationship situation..

you have a big tank of C02......What would require MORE c02 to explode...

1 empty coke bottle
or 3 empty coke bottles?

2 Liters...or 6 liters?

what would take more combined energy in the form of heat/flame..to destroy....

1 coke bottle?
or 3 coke bottles..

The fact that there is MORE material does make it stronger, especially considering they are usually made out of the SAME material

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R.I.P. Randy

monkeyfkker

And when Drift and I agree on something you know it's true! lol

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Refrain from posting once in a while. - VTEC Drams

slowfiveoh

Heh he apologized and retracted his statements. hat takes more balls than most have the capability of. So no worries on my end.

Like I said, I would drive a 300-350whp Civic. I would do it, and yes I would laugh every time I smoked something with a more potent drivetrain. I would giggle with glee the same way I would if I were sitting in my 20psi Pushin Buick Regal T-type and just dusted some punk off in a Corvette (no offense to Corvette guys) who called it a grandma car. Its all about the sleeper effect baby!

Just my outlook. I "keep it real" though. Can Hondas be fast? Yup. Just remember its better to have a conversation with someone about how many hours they personally put into their car, and what they think about their setup then it is to hear "Yo dawg I saw a Honda beat a Viper once man, sheeeiitt them Civics are fast playah ya hurd?". Ooh ooh, or my favorite, "Nah Dog I got a Type R D17 Dawg straight from Malaysia, thats where they be at ya know?".

It just seems to me instead of getting out and working on their cars, a sad many buy "kits" made from companies with no practical race experience.

Oh yeah I dont want to hear any horsecrap about me driving around in a H22 CRX either....lol

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The 305 was a severe POS... Especially next to the Ford 302. -- monkeyfkker

Driftster

hahaha sigged
I'm sorry but H22 CRX's drive like CRAP!!!!
lol..fun cars though..but still they drive worse than a continental with a bad PS pump

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R.I.P. Randy

bossesjoe

Driftster, you know a ton about Hondas.

How would you build a nine second Civic, or as close to that as you could get?

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10mm and SBC for life! -Infernal Combustion

nist7

Another question (for Drifster/Attaus):

What would be a reasonable cost of buying/installing/tuning an AEM standalone engine management system? Since Attaus mentioned that Hondata would'nt be able to perfectly handle that much boost/RPM/power in the H22.

Heretic

I found one of those buick regal Ts in a junk yard a few years ago. It was pretty badly mangled, but I bought the engine. My dad had an old datsun pickup, with a chevy luv stepside bed on it, and I planned on dropping that V6 turbo setup under that hood. After my dad started having health problems, that project went on the back burner, and has never gone anywhere. Now the engine sits with marvel mystery oil in the cylinders, and a nice Kenny Boyce dual side draft carb intake on it gathering rust. I would finish it for him, if he was able to enjoy it

slowfiveoh

Ouch. Thats sad to hear man. Sometimes projects take on a whole new meaning especially when they were meant for loved ones and something happens to one of those loved ones.

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The 305 was a severe POS... Especially next to the Ford 302. -- monkeyfkker

Driftster

How would I get there...

Well here's what I would do....

Honda Eg6 Hatchback shell from Autotrader or any local Honda Salvage yard (yes we have Honda Auto Salvage yards!!!)
300 dollars for everything minus axles/motors/wheels/glass/interior ETC..don't need it..

500 dollars if you want wheels/glass because you might not have a flatbed/etc etc

-500$

Glass- standard glass for front and back, replace side glass with plexiglass cut to fit in your garage with ANY type of saw(just watch your eye..those fibers hurt like a biyotch) Nope won't roll up and down..but I usually don't care anyway...if you don't wanna go that route then just leave the standard glass...

-50$ home depot

Interior- Lancer Evolution Recaro's...Easy to come by in most junk yards because kids can't drive..cost -200-300 dollars for both
mounting brackets can be made at any "import tuning shop" with a plasma cutter and a guy who knows what he's doing.....50 bucks

-350(on the high side)$

Engine-
B18C short block(minimal parts required to save money, but avg shortblock/no head..stock pistons/crank/etc etc

-500$

82MM 9.5:1 JE pistons
500-net price
450-store price
400- store price w/o reciept
----
-450 to be fair
-----

crower rods heavy duty 4340's
700 net price
670 Store price
--------
- 680 to be fair
--------


Eagle micropolished balance crank
- 800
(Could go generic/local for a good 200 less...but for sake of arguement go name brand)
+50 for a oil scraper
+50 bearings

ARP bolt set
-130

Darton sleeve kit
-400dollars
Machine shop work
-200 dollars
(work includes chamfed up water passages)

Block posting
-$4.00 dollars

RMF-FR manifold
-1200 dollars

T4/T67 H.O. turbocharger
-1000 dollars

255LPH pump
-200 dollars
injectors
-300 dollars


Head
B16A SiRII Head
(free- if can find in junkyard.....Have one sitting in my garage...(have most of the hardware sitting in my garage actually so most price is irrel.(has block/head/turbcharger/access to manifold/most fuel products) anywho

Port/polish job
-60

Intake manifold
-100 dollar sheet metal race long runner manifold

Throttle body 75mm
-200 dollars

Fluidyne radiator-
-370
-however alternate route is dual 92/95 mini-radiators running sequentially....
Takes a hellova lot of fluid, but cools more than enough for runs down the track and non agressive daily driving(doubt you'd drive it daily though)
-cost 20 dollars for hoses and couplings


YS1 transmission with 4.4 Final drive
-YS1 100 dollars, final drive gears 225
---350 total-rough price

Welded diff
-free

twin plate clutch pack + plate
-1300 net
-1200 store
-1100 no reciept

--1200

Flywheel SFI spec
-225 dollars

misc wiring/plumbing/10,12,14mm bolts/gaskets/fluid
-600 dollars

engine management
Neptune on dual Honda ECU's (for multiple patterns, both P3's)
-50 dollars

OR

S300 on flashed Honda ECU
- 600 dollars

OR

AEM standalone
-1500

(all $ figures include wire harness cost)

moore racing axles
-275

tires, Mohave all terrain budget slick specials
(filed mohave's till smooth)
-100 dollars + time



Est-total
10,390 dollars with NO parts availible to you...

however as any memeber of the honda community knows...Parts are readibly availible from buddies for much cheaper prices than listed here..

all of this will see you huge gains in a light car on great tires for strip use....will get you high 9's more than likely with tune time in...even STREET tune time...dyno not needed

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R.I.P. Randy

Heretic

my dad has ended up giving me almost all of his old toys, and I am going to have to get rid of some of them. The only two I really want to keep are his old 65 mustang ragtop (he has always said that this would be my car) and one 240z that is all origional, and nice (that was my wedding present) Diana is thinking about keeping one of the Datsun Fairlady roadsters (there are 5 of them to choose from). All of the old race cars will go. I may still finish the pickup if I find an extended cab, so he has a little more room in it. If not I will finish my 46 ford pickup for him, so he has a nice old hot rod


He prefers fords, although he drives a camaro, so he likes my 46. I have to admit I prefer the look of a 46 ford pickup to that of a chevy. Diana thinks there should be a blower underthe hood of this truck