New race track

SteveFX · Apr 22, 2006, 6:46 PM

Road racing has always played second fiddle to oval track racing in the US; so we have never had enough race courses. The losses of Ontario, Riverside, and Bridgehampton have been offset by the ressurrection of VIR (abandoned for 25 years), the creation of Barber and now, Miller Motorsports Park near Salt Lake City Utah. The circuit has gone "hot" only this month. ALMS will race there 7/15; Grand Am Labor Day weekend.

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/index.cfm Big site, somewhat slow to load; be patient.

The track can be run in 4 configurations: 2.2 mile west, 2.24 mile 14 turn east, 3.06 mile outer, and 4.5 mile 24 turn full course. There is 124 feet of elevation change in the east course alone. There is a 3-D sim of a lap of the full course here: http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/VideoTrack2.cfm
There are a set of esses in the southeast part of the track that is so diabolical that one would only expect to see such in a video game.

VickSupra · Apr 22, 2006, 9:24 PM

Very interesting looking course. I wish it were closer!!!
Steve - how do you like Barber compared to Road Atlanta?
To me they are very different courses, with Barber being more technical and more fun to me, and RA being faster and a lot more hard walls!!

BTW - my company purchased a little test facility in Pecos - check it out here:
http://www.ara.com/transportation/roads_pecos.htm

Would you believe I have volunteered my services to exercise the track??!?!?!?!

SteveFX · Apr 23, 2006, 3:57 AM

The only outdoor venue of any type I have ever attended that is nicer than Barber is Augusta National! It's that gorgeous. It makes Rd ATL look like a dungheap, even after Panoz' millions; which provided said hard walls where earth embankments + tires had been.

I would think anyone who spent so much money moving so much dirt should have left turns 10 and 11 as they were. They could have cut away some infield and put a gravel trap on the right. They could have extended the runoff out of 11 (100 yards would have been a good idea).

-----

Kewl looking test track. Will you be going there on legitimate business? Can you rent a Z06?

civckllr · Apr 23, 2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VickSupra

BTW - my company purchased a little test facility in Pecos - check it out here:
http://www.ara.com/transportation/roads_pecos.htm

Testing facility!?! that looks like i could be an all out road course.. well it is , but i mean like used as a recognised track

parko1990 · Apr 23, 2006, 12:40 PM

What is it you do VickSupra?

Venom 1000 · Apr 23, 2006, 4:56 PM

nice looking course

VickSupra · Apr 24, 2006, 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parko1990

What is it you do VickSupra?

If I told you , I would have to shoot you.........
Seriously, it's security/anti-terrorism related. Unfortunately I don't have a snowball's chance in Pecos of getting to run that track - but I will try!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFX

.....

I would think anyone who spent so much money moving so much dirt should have left turns 10 and 11 as they were. They could have cut away some infield and put a gravel trap on the right. They could have extended the runoff out of 11 (100 yards would have been a good idea).

-----

Kewl looking test track. Will you be going there on legitimate business? Can you rent a Z06?

Do you have a layout of RA before the changes? I've heard about them but did not see it prior.

I will try to get out to our test facility, but it will be a stretch. Since it is private, I'm not sure if insurance will let us out there (legally). Maybe a midnight visit!

SteveFX · Apr 24, 2006, 6:29 AM

Turn 10 was known as "the dip". Located about where the tunnel is now; it was 18 feet lower elevation than it is now. The massive positive G-forces took their toll on tires, suspensions, and race cars. (I have a pic of Geoff Brabham crawling out of the inverted Electramotive Nissan GTP 30 yds short of the bridge.) Late apex 10 at 180 mph for an uphill braking zone, looking for a turn in point for 11. Alas, you will only see sky under the bridge. Car & Driver named it one of the 10 best(worst?) corners in racing.

Panoz also shaved off the hill at turn 8, but I didn't mind that. While aviation was rare; it had happened to Dennis Hulme in a McLaren in 1971. In the '80's, a chicane had been added there for the SCCA runoffs, alledgedly to make it less of a hp course. It was pointless, other than to make SSB Camaros look less like race cars than they already were. When new owners repaved the track around 1992, they deleted it. Rumor has it that when SCCA asked, "what about our chicane?", they were told, "pave it yourself." Rumor has it that SCCA took their ball/runoffs to Mid-Ohio to race in snow and rain 2 out of 3 years; ending their season in September.

PS. I watched AMA Superbikes from Barber yesterday... I can't wait for Grand Am in July!

VickSupra · Apr 24, 2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFX

Turn 10 was known as "the dip". Located about where the tunnel is now; it was 18 feet lower elevation than it is now. ....Late apex 10 at 180 mph for an uphill braking zone, looking for a turn in point for 11. Alas, you will only see sky under the bridge. Car & Driver named it one of the 10 best(worst?) corners in racing.

......

Whoa - that was quite different. I thought 10a was a bit of a dip now!!
Coming into 12 is still an adventure for me. Fortunately, the chief NASA-SE instructor rode with me one session and gave me the details I needed to enter 12 properly. Much better after that!
I don't miss that ex-hill at 8. That really is a long straight between 7 and 10a. It really doesn't seem like 8 and 9 exist (at least for someone as slow as me!)

Thanks for the history. I had heard some of the veterans at RA talk about the "old course", but didn't know details.

SteveFX · Apr 26, 2006, 8:43 PM

So you have driven Barber, Vick? Is it as smooth as it looks?

It appears that every turn is either uphill, downhill, or changing its mind in mid-turn. Do they at least give you a bit of positive camber when they throw this at you?

My favorite viewing spot at the '05 GA was the 2-3 combo (207 degrees that changes from uphill to down maybe 1/3 through), especially in the closing laps in a surface-dampening sprinkle when DP cars were dicing for position while passing GT cars.

VickSupra · Apr 27, 2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFX

So you have driven Barber, Vick? Is it as smooth as it looks?

It appears that every turn is either uphill, downhill, or changing its mind in mid-turn. Do they at least give you a bit of positive camber when they throw this at you?

My favorite viewing spot at the '05 GA was the 2-3 combo (207 degrees that changes from uphill to down maybe 1/3 through), especially in the closing laps in a surface-dampening sprinkle when DP cars were dicing for position while passing GT cars.

I've driven Barber three times. It is verrrrry smooth - they keep the track in great condition and it was well designed and constructed.
Most every turn is different, although a couple on the back side (nearly straight-through) are much the same. Some turns have + camber, but not many.
I have had my most trouble in 2-3 (I'm usually going in too fast) and the hairpin (it's just tough in a RWD heavy car).
Barber is an excellent track for spectators. It's amazing how much of it you can see from most any spot!

SteveFX · Apr 27, 2006, 1:13 AM

It is true that you can see 60% of the course from many places. As a RD ATL veteran spectator; I was at first put off by the idea of no infield at Barber. Having a reliable tram that could take me anywhere on the course perimeter in 10 minutes made me a convert. There is one downside...

The Rolex race on the last weekend in July means MURDEROUS heat! (2nd NASCAR Talladega that weekend never sold out. It was moved to October.) I had to drink more water than beer. HERESY!!!

VickSupra · Apr 27, 2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFX

..... There is one downside...

The Rolex race on the last weekend in July means MURDEROUS heat! (2nd NASCAR Talladega that weekend never sold out. It was moved to October.) I had to drink more water than beer. HERESY!!!

Heh - anything in B-ham, or Hotlanta, or this area is HOT in July.
I ran the NASA event last August at RA. I nearly died. In the paddock.

SteveFX · Apr 28, 2006, 12:19 AM

Thank Doc Panoz for all the heat-absorbing asphalt. He ruined (for campers/loyal race fans) the entire south end of the infield.

Robbie · Apr 29, 2006, 11:12 AM

that is soooo sweet

Apr 22, 2006, 6:46 PM	#1
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	New race track Road racing has always played second fiddle to oval track racing in the US; so we have never had enough race courses. The losses of Ontario, Riverside, and Bridgehampton have been offset by the ressurrection of VIR (abandoned for 25 years), the creation of Barber and now, Miller Motorsports Park near Salt Lake City Utah. The circuit has gone "hot" only this month. ALMS will race there 7/15; Grand Am Labor Day weekend. http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/index.cfm Big site, somewhat slow to load; be patient. The track can be run in 4 configurations: 2.2 mile west, 2.24 mile 14 turn east, 3.06 mile outer, and 4.5 mile 24 turn full course. There is 124 feet of elevation change in the east course alone. There is a 3-D sim of a lap of the full course here: http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/VideoTrack2.cfm There are a set of esses in the southeast part of the track that is so diabolical that one would only expect to see such in a video game. __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it.

Apr 22, 2006, 9:24 PM	#2
VickSupra Supra Moderizzle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miss Sippy Posts: 860	Very interesting looking course. I wish it were closer!!! Steve - how do you like Barber compared to Road Atlanta? To me they are very different courses, with Barber being more technical and more fun to me, and RA being faster and a lot more hard walls!! BTW - my company purchased a little test facility in Pecos - check it out here: http://www.ara.com/transportation/roads_pecos.htm Would you believe I have volunteered my services to exercise the track??!?!?!?! Last edited by VickSupra : Apr 22, 2006 at 9:52 PM.

Apr 23, 2006, 3:57 AM	#3
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	The only outdoor venue of any type I have ever attended that is nicer than Barber is Augusta National! It's that gorgeous. It makes Rd ATL look like a dungheap, even after Panoz' millions; which provided said hard walls where earth embankments + tires had been. I would think anyone who spent so much money moving so much dirt should have left turns 10 and 11 as they were. They could have cut away some infield and put a gravel trap on the right. They could have extended the runoff out of 11 (100 yards would have been a good idea). ----- Kewl looking test track. Will you be going there on legitimate business? Can you rent a Z06? __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it.

Apr 23, 2006, 12:40 PM	#5
parko1990 still dreaming Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chris Harris' barn Posts: 5,196	What is it you do VickSupra? __________________ "Men with guts attack those corners!" ~ Keiichi Tsuchiya

Apr 24, 2006, 6:29 AM	#8
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	Turn 10 was known as "the dip". Located about where the tunnel is now; it was 18 feet lower elevation than it is now. The massive positive G-forces took their toll on tires, suspensions, and race cars. (I have a pic of Geoff Brabham crawling out of the inverted Electramotive Nissan GTP 30 yds short of the bridge.) Late apex 10 at 180 mph for an uphill braking zone, looking for a turn in point for 11. Alas, you will only see sky under the bridge. Car & Driver named it one of the 10 best(worst?) corners in racing. Panoz also shaved off the hill at turn 8, but I didn't mind that. While aviation was rare; it had happened to Dennis Hulme in a McLaren in 1971. In the '80's, a chicane had been added there for the SCCA runoffs, alledgedly to make it less of a hp course. It was pointless, other than to make SSB Camaros look less like race cars than they already were. When new owners repaved the track around 1992, they deleted it. Rumor has it that when SCCA asked, "what about our chicane?", they were told, "pave it yourself." Rumor has it that SCCA took their ball/runoffs to Mid-Ohio to race in snow and rain 2 out of 3 years; ending their season in September. PS. I watched AMA Superbikes from Barber yesterday... I can't wait for Grand Am in July! Attached Thumbnails __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it. Last edited by SteveFX : Apr 24, 2006 at 6:36 AM.

Apr 23, 2006, 4:56 PM	#6
Venom 1000 SCF Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,039	nice looking course

Apr 26, 2006, 8:43 PM	#10
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	So you have driven Barber, Vick? Is it as smooth as it looks? It appears that every turn is either uphill, downhill, or changing its mind in mid-turn. Do they at least give you a bit of positive camber when they throw this at you? My favorite viewing spot at the '05 GA was the 2-3 combo (207 degrees that changes from uphill to down maybe 1/3 through), especially in the closing laps in a surface-dampening sprinkle when DP cars were dicing for position while passing GT cars. __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it. Last edited by SteveFX : Apr 26, 2006 at 9:50 PM.

Apr 27, 2006, 1:13 AM	#12
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	It is true that you can see 60% of the course from many places. As a RD ATL veteran spectator; I was at first put off by the idea of no infield at Barber. Having a reliable tram that could take me anywhere on the course perimeter in 10 minutes made me a convert. There is one downside... The Rolex race on the last weekend in July means MURDEROUS heat! (2nd NASCAR Talladega that weekend never sold out. It was moved to October.) I had to drink more water than beer. HERESY!!! __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it.

Apr 28, 2006, 12:19 AM	#14
SteveFX Bent Rim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,523	Thank Doc Panoz for all the heat-absorbing asphalt. He ruined (for campers/loyal race fans) the entire south end of the infield. __________________ monkey's Camaro went faster because of the howling pack of starving stray dogs behind it.

Apr 29, 2006, 11:12 AM	#15
Robbie R.I.P. Yoyo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 13,002	that is soooo sweet __________________ Jordana Brewster. I would bend her chassis from so much thrust it would be ridiculous.~ Cooper "s"

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