My favorite would be SVT focus. You get 20 more hp and about $2,000 back. Which do you want and please explain.

i voted for the cooper by mistake, but I prefer the SVT.
I just prefer the way it looks, the mini, its too 'cute' looking, although the intake on the bonnet does look pretty mean!

They performance similarly enough, but the Mini, is too small for me, and despite the better quality (it is a BMW afterall) I would still undoubtedly take a Focus.

Nice choice. No doubt the MINI is a much better made car, but as you said, it's too small. I forgot to mention that eceryone has one. They are a lot more popular than the svt. After all, how many SVT foci do you see on the road? me, about 3

foci

LOL

is that right...is the plural of focus foci ( the car)?

I don't know, but thats what i say. I think Foci sounds better than focuses. Looks cooler, too. :D I also forgot to mention if you like any other small car for under 25K, post your reasons why you like it and what it is.

My favourite is Ford. It has a good design and permormance and 2000 $ is not little money. mini looks good but price is his worst side, also it very small... but for somebody size doesn't matter

i know mopar u would stab me if u could,lol but i would take the mini s cause its new model is gonna have 200 hp in a small car like that is crazy

also it handles awesome and is considered to be one of the best front wheel drive car ever made. i like how the tires sit at the very edges of the car creating awesome handling characteristics and to be honest i know this is a shot from left field but it is similar to the macleran f1 cause thats probably the only car that has its tires at the very four corners of the car,

also the mini is made by bmw and they cant make an affordable car those bastards but the saying is u get what u pay for, do u agree with bemmer?

Foci, Mini is great, too expensive, too small tho

Interesting Initial. Were did you read that the new mini has a 200hp motor? I'm not trying to be cynical, i'm being serious. Road and Track? I know that John Cooper Mini Works has an aftermarket kit for the S that boosts the HP to 200, but i didn't know BMW would factory install that kit or make a new engine. If that happens, I'm sure BMW would raise the price way over 25K, shooting it way higher than the SVT Focus. So, for the price, I would still choose the SVT.

And no initial D, if I saw you i real life, i wouldn't stab you....... I WOULD DESTROY YOU AND DEVOUR YOUR SOOOOUUUUULLLL!!!!!!!!!! (JK!)

The mini Works... 200 hp yes, but its only £18000, whilst the Focus RS is £20000.
0-60 in 6.7, so its definetly as fast as the RS.

But I just read there now ( F1 magazine June) the 18000 is for the base of the base. 100%standard!

If you want everything (all optional ectras) it brings the price up to £35000!

Me still the RS, I wouldnt feel comfortable in the mini, no matter how big the alloys.

sorry mopar i think your right but it will be a dealer install when purchased i aint to sure and not a 100 percent positive but i do that it will be offered at least at the dealer this year or next model year which will be very exciting to see one of those little bugers rip the **** out of civics in my neiborhood

i prefer the Mini !!
i didnt get a ride on the ford but when i drove the Mini there was the pleasure...
if the problem is that its too small i used to think so till i drove the 172 renu and the mini !!

I agree initial, but i don't have a problem with civics. I have a problem with all the rich white kids whole go to my school with there "bought by daddy" BMW 330's. Even though there is a chance that the bimmer is faster, but the kids can't even begin to drive them!

I was also wanting to ask someone from europe how the Focus RS is. I heard it had a really harsh ride, but it was really quick. Anyone who has driven it, please tell me about the experience. If you haven't driven it, explain to what it sounds like!

rich white kids whole go to my school with there "bought by daddy" BMW 330's

You bitter about not getting one yourself! :D

ANyway the Focus RS;
The ride is meant to be harsh, but not overly. And as for speed its fast, but again nothing crazy, 0 - 60 in 6.9 secs. Then again, it is great value for £20000. Apart form the interior that is supposed to be, like the regualr Focus, not that great.

The RS has some new differential, and since its front wheel drive this is supposed to have created a problem. Aparently alot of torque steer - good for the track maybe, but uncomfortable on the road.

Of course I'm bitter about it! Wouldn't you? It's not like they deserve those bimmers! Like I said, the teenagers that have those cars can barely drive. Come to think of it, all but one are women. Kind of makes you think doesn't it?

FOCUS RS -60 6.9, not really, more close to 5.9 :D, i have seen that stock, my car used to do 5.4 stock 4 flat now 8) , but again with the focus, it's harsh not that much but thats the idea, and it's steering is M3 precise, but a tad quicker, around a track it would beat most normal cars i think, brakes are superb and balance is awesome

I have test driven a lot of cars lately, and the ST170 was the most satisfactory car i've driven until i tried the RS, torque on the steering is not a problem, this isnt an altima, it feels normal, anyway, at mid 2005 the Cosworth will appear, with 300bhp and 400+ft-lbs of torque, that would make subaru and mitsu worried i hope :twisted:

the cosworth will be lighter and have more power than the Impreza and Evo.
An dits got such an upper hand when it comes to looks - the cosworth easily the best looking ford (next to the new GT)

Ok, I'm from the US and the best focus we get is the SVT. There is an aftermarket company that will do a conversion with your focus. They take out the 4-cylinder and squeeze in an SVT Cobra supercharged V-8 and put in it's rear wheel drivetrain, then tune the engine from 390hp to 500+hp. All this comes at about $80,000, without the focus! So my question is, who is cosworth? I've heard of the Escort Cosworth, but thats about it. Any info would be great.

the focus cosworth is the same as the escort... taking the ford family hatch back and putting a high performance engine - the cosworth. Its a british company, that makes engines for the Jaguar Formula one team.

Ok, I'm from the US and the best focus we get is the SVT. There is an aftermarket company that will do a conversion with your focus. They take out the 4-cylinder and squeeze in an SVT Cobra supercharged V-8 and put in it's rear wheel drivetrain, then tune the engine from 390hp to 500+hp. All this comes at about $80,000, without the focus! So my question is, who is cosworth? I've heard of the Escort Cosworth, but thats about it. Any info would be great.

I heard about Foci V8 but thats insane, its like the Dahlback golf, anyway, the Focus cosworth 4 cil 2 liter engine can make 500hp and 450ft-lbs, its awd, but that engine setup is not even allowed in WRC, i have some dyno scans of the engine testing from two years ago, maybe i'll post them

Anyway, a focus WRC has +300bhp and serious torque, enough to go 0-60 in 3.5 sec and destroy every car in handling terms

the focus cosworth is the same as the escort... taking the ford family hatch back and putting a high performance engine - the cosworth. Its a british company, that makes engines for the Jaguar Formula one team.

Not just that, like the EVO and the STi (except for US models) they are road going versions of their WRC couterparts, full time AWD with dynamic torque distribution (user controlled in EVO VIII JAP and STi JAP) and 2 liter turbocharged engines (except for US STi models 2.5 R4) producing 300+hp and 400+ft-lbs of torque

Those cars would destroy anything, believe me, if i take my cosworth, i'd destroy everything (if i was a good driver), i can sprint better than an NSX, and when it comes to curves, i can get in and out without lifting in most cases, and all that in gravel.

Good i love rallying

you've got a point - few thing would beat the 'cossie'

have you dont anything to it? - Ive heard you can just switch the engine managment chip, at the cost of around £20 and you have an extra 40-50BHP!

if u mean to change the computer chip in the car it doesnt cost only 20 ...
it costs alot ..

..well in thsi instance it cost £20!
It is just a 150Kb chip afterall!

how much are these "cossies"?

well they arent in profuction anymore - but you could pick up an 'alright' one for 15K plus or minus 5K

mallon r u talking about the turbo cumputer chip?!@ in 20 euro ??@
i mean the chip that adds 10-12% to the excisting Hp in a non turbo car ..
and up till 30% for a Turbo charged car ???!

well results vary - but 40-50BHP on a cosworth is a nice boast.

It changes the ROM on the computers computer (the 'instructions' that the computer tells the pistons - horribly basic explanation there).

This can be bought for £20 - its a chip about 3cm x 3cm

How much HP do these "cossies" have? Is it like 300?

Mallon its not that i dont believe u ...
but can u give me a site that sells there chips !?
couse personally i dont know any chip that costs under 500$

i can uderstand where the misbelief is! - 40-50bhp for 20 quid doesnt sound too bad, but he didnt get it on a site - as a matter of fact i dont know where... but ill speak to him tomorrow so ill ask!

the production escort cosworth i think has around 200BHP - there abouts anyway.
But you see some with 500BHP+

couse if thats the price ....
i would want to get one for my car ..!!!
do u know from which company the chip ??
Powerchips ,Superchips ,Booster chips ....?

well this chip going to be specific to cosworth engines fitted to the escort, and you need a computer managment system on your engine with the ability to have the ROM switiched. - something I cant see in a Saab CDE (im not positive though - just unlikely)

the chips i know can fit any engine...
and by the way my engine have acomputer managment system ...
most engine have... maybe each one have his quality but most have ...
turbo engines are better couse the chip controlls the turbo too that way he can "create" more Hp from the engine !
my friend putted a chip in 1 1.8 turbo audi A3 180 Hp before the chip...
and an other putted the same chip in a Seat ibiza sport .. thats what its called here...

same chip diffrent cars ...!

hmm white i dunno
A saab engine managment is going to be completely different to a Cosworth.
Im certain that chips arent compatible through out different car families. (Audi and Seat being in the same)

check the chip companys ...
i read about some not long ago ...
chips are compatible for many cars .. the maufactor of the chp will write the cars compatible for the chip...
most of them are compatible to Saab Cars specially the Tuebocharged ones...
:arrow: most the chip companys i checked are from the Rsportscars tunning ...
but there is one company there which is called Cosworth chips .... i didnt really check it but it seems to be specially for Cosworth escorts im not sure about this one !

it seems to be specially for Cosworth escorts im not sure about this one !

trust me it is!
It doesnt make sense for 2 different engines to run on the same instructions - its like trying to play football on the rules of snooker.

ok i will give u an example of a chip prduction that the chip is compatable for most cars..
the chip company is called POWERCHIPS ..
the site link is :
http://www.autosport-fr.com/site_anglais/plateforme_ang.htm

there are lists of cars in the site that the chip is compatible to them ...
the company have 3 code chips ....
the prise by the way starts from 440 € !
the prices u can find in the site...

it seems to me were not talking about the same kind of chip becouse of the prise ..
but check it out ...!

yeah that seems like the stuff there!
But those chips, i dont think, are compatitble from car to car - you get a different chip depending on you car.

if u look at the prices u can see there are 3 chips ...
for all of the cars....
and there i cant see any 20 ..... !
it starts from 440 till 700+ !!!
thats why im so surprised from the price !!

and as i said i know people who have the same chip in diffrent cars ... thats why im telling u that its possible !

yeah you said n Audi and a Seat - but they are the same family of cars - its unlikey that a chip will be comptible e.g. with a mini and a Saab.

Im not too sure about the price myself now that I see what ive looked at today- but for all i know it was second hand - as i said before ill check tomorrow.

i just told u whats obvious from what i read in the chips sites....
obviously as u saw there are 3 codes for all cars...
anyways..
i will be waiting to hear from u tomorrow about the chip ur friend got for 20 ...
thanks ...

mini for the Kompact car enthusiatist also for the people who lives for the past but Ford Focus is for the one who live in fast lane and also who believe in the power of modification unlike mini which expensive and limited modification available also wat do u expect fr tiny engine hiiihi :twisted:

The Mini S dont have a tiny engine
and the focus is ford is faster but the Mini have the style !

I'd say the Mini S has a small engine. But compared to other 4 poopers, it's not much smaller. But a mini engine is a peanut next to a 454 V-8!

check the chip companys ...
i read about some not long ago ...
chips are compatible for many cars .. the maufactor of the chp will write the cars compatible for the chip...
most of them are compatible to Saab Cars specially the Tuebocharged ones...
:arrow: most the chip companys i checked are from the Rsportscars tunning ...
but there is one company there which is called Cosworth chips .... i didnt really check it but it seems to be specially for Cosworth escorts im not sure about this one !

Man, mallo is right, the chip is designed or at least setup for the engine you want it to mod, settings vary from a big v8 to a small l4, and even though cheap, a chip can make some real good adjustments, cars can be rechipped for more low end torque for example, chips vary from engine to engine, and mod level, its not the same to chip a stock vette c5 than a z06 for example

Also, on turbo cars, chips can adjust boost for example, but in some cases a dyno tuning is recomended withthe chip setup

:arrow: FR500
mallon said the same as you did ....
i know that the chip is better for turbo charged engines....
but check the post i sented with the example and link to the chip company ..

:arrow: FR500
mallon said the same as you did ....
i know that the chip is better for turbo charged engines....
but check the post i sented with the example and link to the chip company ..

Huh? u said chips are the smae for most cars, i saw yuour site, still, chips vary from model to model, even more brand to brand ie: mustang gt uses different setttings on diablo superchips than an 03 cobra

can u give a link or an example ...
couse i really dont get it ....
in the site i linked there were almost every car in the world...
and there were only 3 types of chips for all of them ...
the chip may be setup for the car... but its the same chip ..

if u think im wrong and u say it aint true... please back up ur answer and give me examples .... thanks :wink:

can u give a link or an example ...
couse i really dont get it ....
in the site i linked there were almost every car in the world...
and there were only 3 types of chips for all of them ...
the chip may be setup for the car... but its the same chip ..

if u think im wrong and u say it aint true... please back up ur answer and give me examples .... thanks :wink:

The chips are not the same, their software is configured depending on the car, and the hardware is designed to be accepted by the original hardware

you got me confused,
i didn't really get what you wanted to say... sorry mate :roll:

White-Night
In short, Different cars, Different Chip

i cant see that ...
but it seems pointless... couse i cant see were did u get the information from...
...by the way.. did u check with your friend about the 20 euro chip??

yeah it wsa second hand - he got it advertised in a magazine. He was sure how much they are new but he said well over £100.

thanks mallon ...
if you find an other chip like that let me know :wink:

As far as I know, a computer receives data from various sensors and commands a certain amount of actuators, mainly ignitors and injectors. Various engine models have different structure with different sensors and actuactors, so the computer must be different in terms of input/output hardware. And software is designed for a specific engine. All in all, we can't exchange computers among different engines.
On the other hand, I guess there only two or three kinds of main chip in a computer, such as a Motorola or a Delphi, just like our PC has a Intel or AMD. So I suppose that chip tuning means changing chips, not changing the whole computers. And before you install a new chip, a technician should have downloaded a software that suits your engine to it. New software is performance oriented, whereas the OEM software emphasizes daily use. Some aftermarket chips can be remaped, not like ordinary embeded systems.
I'm not familiar with chip tuning actually, although I said that above. I'll be glad to see more details about it. And please forgive my poor English, I'm Chinese by the way.

This is a damn old thread, but a good one.

I'd definetly go for the Mini. It has so much personality. It's bold and fun. It's a trendsetter. It's got history, it's a legend. The Mini is lively and has character. It's not a boring conventional hatchback. Plus, the performance difference is pretty small anyways. Not to mention the Mini's better build quality, looks, and handling.

The Mini has history? Hang on, i have an idea. How about I buy out Ferrari, get a truck body, put a 4 banger bargin BMW engine and call it the 250 GTO. That has all the history the Mini has.

I'm surprised I haven' replied to this topic...
Anyway, I'm choosing the Mini Cooper S. It looks cool, it drives like a cart and it has an excellent engine. The Focus drives good too and is an excellent car overall, still the Mini is my choice, mainly because of the driving sensation.

Focus all the way. While I can appreciate the history of the mini, in that it got a generation to love the low powered micro car, it just wouldn't do the same for me now. Even with the new Mini I don't think I would like it over an SVT Focus. Both are good, but in my opinion the Focus is more fun.

Sorry, but the Cooper S thrashes the SVT Focus in drivability. And expect good reliability as it's parent company is BMW, which will ensure no unreliable cars go through to sale. Fun, quirky, and overall, better.

No unreliable cars eh? Check BMW's new 7 series' score in Consumer Reports 2004 issue where they rail it for the lowest luxury car reliability. BMW screws it up like everyone else.

Too bad. =/

Either way, I saw a Cooper Cabriolet today, I like the top spot when it's down out back.

The only problem w/ minis, is that too many people are buying them now, I mean, on my street of about 20-25 houses, there's 5 minis!!! Blue Cab, Electric Blue Coupe, Red Cab, Pepper white Coupe, Black Coupe. That's wayy to many lol.

ghalos & astondude, Bmw's reliability isn't all to stellar, but it's better than Fords'. I promise you the Mini Cooper is better in reliability than the Focus. I promise you that BMW is better in reliability than Ford.

Let's look at Consumer Reports' USED CARS TO AVOID lists:
BMW 3Series '04
BMW 5Series '04
BMW 7Series '02-03
BMW X5 '01, '04

Ford Escape '01
Ford Excusrion '01, '03
Ford Expedition '03, '04
Ford Explorer '00
Ford Exporer 4WD '02
Ford F150 '04
Ford Focus '00, '01
Ford Focus Wagon '04
Ford Ranger '01, '02, '04
Ford Windstar '97-'01