I'm purposely not choosing the McLaren F1and in its place I'm going with the Aston Martin DB9, and tied along with it is the Jaguar XJ220, they ooze pure unadulterated fun and class.

Gentlemen, and ladies, your choices?

I'malso thinking we should have sectional votes on the favorite, like American, Euro, Asian, etc...ehhh...just an idea. 8)

My fav euro cars are the Aston DB9, and the DB7GT is quite close, also the TVR Sagaris and Tuscan range (that includes T440/Typhon), and the Lotus Elise 111R/ 04 Exige, because for their price, they are amazing, and also regardless of their price, they are still amazing :P However my absolute at the moment is the original AC Cobra, which sparked the slightly quicker Shelby cobra, but that one isnt european. Then AC improved on Shelby's design of their car, and made a better one - thats the one I like most :twisted: :D
The Ultimate Euro car is the Koenigsegg CCR, but its not my fav car (just supercar) 8)

This is so difficult to say, there are so many cars made. But i would agree with the cars SubaruKid mentioned.
i want to add one more car: the new Audi A6. It looks soo great!!! I would love to have that car :smt060 :smt060

M3 (i think you know why :P), new lotus elise, ferrari 360, porsche 911 GT3...so hard to choose 1 :x

If we're talking about the best car without thinking of practicality etc, then for me it's the McLaren F1 (LM).
If we do take into consideration issues such as practicality, everyday driving etc, then I'd choose the M3 coupe.

There is so many great cars made in europe that i can't decide which is my fav :? , but somewhere in the top of my list there would be a Ferrari 550 Maranello or the 575, Aston Martin DB9, BMW M5 and M3, Porshce 911 GT3, Lamborghini Murcielago and many others.

Ever? Wow thats tuff. I'd have to break it down to 3 categories.

Supercar-Enzo Ferrari.
"Regular" exotic car-Challange Stradale.
Classic-250 GTO.

Yes I love Ferrari lol. :-)

Ever? Wow thats tuff. I'd have to break it down to 3 categories.

Supercar-Enzo Ferrari.
"Regular" exotic car-Challange Stradale.
Classic-250 GTO.

Yes I love Ferrari lol. :-)

Hm..here's mine:

Supercar: Porsche Carrera GT
Regular Sports Car: Lamborghini Gallardo/ MB SLK55 AMG
Sedan: BMW E60 M5
Classic: Aston Martin DB5/ MB 300SL Gullwing

Supercar - Bugatti Veyron is just plain craziness
Exotic - 911 GT3
Neo Classic - how bout the 288 GTO
Classic - Detomaso Pantera
True Classic - Jaguar D-type, long nose of course...

As said before, far too many to pick from. Great history of cars, just can't decide on one true favorite.

Supercar: Porsche Carrera GT
Exotic Porsche GT3
Classic:Ferrari 250 GTO
Everyday Car: Porsche 944

McLaren F1
Jaguar XJ220
Porsche Carrera GT

yellow Maserati Indy
orange Opel GT

two great classics woth amazing styling

I'm adding the Jaguar E-Type to my list...it's just so hot

Bugatti Veyron

W16 engine, 1001bhp. Mmmmm

I want to add the DeTomaso Pantera, I don't know why I forgot it :shock:

Anyway, and this Arden A-Type Lightweight RS - a German modified Jag XKR
http://www.arden.de/typo3temp/691b9614d3.jpg
http://www.arden.de/typo3temp/49703483cd.jpg

Its only €278,000 :shock: :P
also, thanks CarRocker for this car, truly awesome

thats a pretty sweet jag. Hmmmmmm, this is really tough. I love alot of european cars. I think my overall favorite design is the lotus Seven. It's so timeless and simple. So the caterham R500 superlight evo is just amazing. But it's not my favorite. I'd have to say my absolute favorite euro car has to be the Sportec 911 GT1. That thing is just wow. I mean, take a homoligation lemans car and add 100+hp. Absolutely nuts.

Its only €278,000 :shock: :P
also, thanks CarRocker for this car, truly awesome

haha, you're welcome. :wink: But i didn't gave you that car, it was b/c the other car i gave you that link.
But it is indeed an awesome car!

SuperCar - Mclaren F1 GT-R LM
Regular - Mondeo ST220
Performance - BMW M3 CSL
Classic - Jenson Interceptor

FORD FOCUS RS RULEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I am not talking about supercars etc... because i can't have them!!!!!!!!
But one car that it is very expensive but i have to mention it is porsche GT3 RS!!!!!!! :D

HeHe, Ferrai 360 CS is better than a 911 GT3 RS I think!

I don't care which is better.... !All those cars are >=< FAST so the only thing that i want from them is to be just beautiful :D [/img]

it depends on your style. If you want more of the stripped down, balls to the wall manly car, you go for the GT3. If you want something a little more civilized in every ascpect, then you go for the CS.

Supercar: Ferrari 412P
Classic: Bizzarrini GT Strada
: Alfa Romeo GTZ-2
: Masserati 412 S
Eye-watering speed: Porsche 917k long tail
Something to make everybody say "wtf is that?": 330 LM

it depends on your style. If you want more of the stripped down, balls to the wall manly car, you go for the GT3. If you want something a little more civilized in every ascpect, then you go for the CS.

A CS can be just as, if not MORE stripped out, race car like then a GT3 if ordered as so.......

:twisted: :twisted: i would go with Aston Martin DB9, BMW M5 and M3, Porshce 911 GT3, Lamborghini Murcielago . :twisted: :twisted:

it's a little bit irrelevant BuT GREECE!!!! Rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!
sikose toooo to gamimenoooo den mporwwww den mporwww na perimenwww :D :D :D :D :D !!!!!!!!!!
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia!!!!!!!!!!

it's a little bit irrelevant BuT GREECE!!!! Rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!
sikose toooo to gamimenoooo den mporwwww den mporwww na perimenwww :D :D :D :D :D !!!!!!!!!!
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia!!!!!!!!!!

what the hell on earth is this!!! :roll: :roll:

GREECE yesterday won Czech!!! in soccer!!!!!!
we will take the cup!!!!!!
We will play in final game with portugal!!!!!
p.s we won portugal in 1st round 2-1

it's a little bit irrelevant BuT GREECE!!!! Rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!
sikose toooo to gamimenoooo den mporwwww den mporwww na perimenwww :D :D :D :D :D !!!!!!!!!!
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia
eina baria baria i poutsa tou tsolia!!!!!!!!!!

what the hell on earth is this!!! :roll: :roll:

Its more than a bit irrelevant, its stupid. This is for cars, and if you want to talk about the football, do it in the Misc section.

it depends on your style. If you want more of the stripped down, balls to the wall manly car, you go for the GT3. If you want something a little more civilized in every ascpect, then you go for the CS.

A CS can be just as, if not MORE stripped out, race car like then a GT3 if ordered as so.......

They stripped out almost everything in the CS, even the carpets. They saved 220KG.

its how a ferrari should be, they got too coushy after the 80s

what i meant to say is that the Chalenge probaly has more civilized handling. Think about it. 911's are known for having wicked oversteer, and it's even worse without traction control, which the GT3 doesn't have (i think). And the CS is mid engined, so in theory it should be easier to handle than the GT3.

its how a ferrari should be, they got too coushy after the 80s

Have you ever driven a car without carpets, or a road worthy suspension??
IT'S HELL...on a track, that's a completely different story, Lamborgini tried to do what you said, all balls, no class...And look, now they're owned by Audi, and thank god for it...

But, even though i just said that, I completely agree, if you buy a ferrari, it's a god damn toy, beat the hell out of it, get speeding tickets, run up your insurance rates, be a track god, but please, oh please don't buy it for status...That's already included in the sticker price...Buy a 360 CS for fun, and whatever big sedan for usage other times. 8)

If you buy a fast car you should drive it as its designed instead of impressing clerks round the office

If you buy a fast car you should drive it as its designed instead of impressing clerks round the office
HAHAHAH =D>

I think four posts in this topic should be deleted

I think we should start from where blucam argued with mopar but as history as showen they'll never delete a mod's post. Btw i bet this is gonna be deleted, take a photo, it lasts longer

Where and who are the mods in this forum?

For that guy whou said murcielago db 9 new M3 etc,

You are quite funny, as i bet in 5 years you will be say, new m3, db 13 and al sorta new Stuff. those cars cant seriously be the best ever they havnt established themselves yet, I think these are amongst the GREATEST, and legendary! and have left an indelible mark on European auto history.

All M3 models
BMW 1986 630 csl
Escort rs cosworth 1993 to 1999
Porsche 993 turbo
Porsche gt3 RS
Carrera RS 1972
bugatti Eb110
Ford mondeo 2001 and facelift 2003,
Ferrari F40
Lancia stratos
All 5 generations of Golf
Porsche 959
VW corrado
Jaguar E type
Lotus Elise
Ford RS 200
Group B rally 205
Vw beetle all of them even the new cabrio, must admit, only for that it has beetle heritage.
BMW 7 series
Mercebes benz s class all of the series.

AND many more but these are all i can think of for now

No doubt about it the Ferarri F 40

It summed up and redefined what the super car is,
its ionic famous shape is known world wide and identifiable
Blistering quick performance
Most beautiful styling ever in the world,
The features it has which make it great are,
heretage
deepdish rims
turbos and special factory upgrade options
racing interior, bare to minimum luxury, (luxury and pure performance are opposites, and so do not attract,) by the way, buy a bentley if you cant handle a sports car, ANYWAY
its the spoiler engraved F40 lettering and side air intakes and the red engine covers.
the overall shape, is amazing,
its has a nice wide track
AND A BEAUTIFUL SOUND!!!!

It is the King of the world and if theres one thing i would take with me to a distant planet with aliens as an Icon which represented the achievments of human creativity, design engineering and the endeavour of the challange of mobility It would be the Ferarri F 40.
=D>

Koenigsegg.com
Swedish handmade Supercar. Since I can't afford this 800+ HP beast, I'll instead continue to modify my '95 e36 M3 (OBD I) and '74 Karmann Ghia, which accomplishes my goal of having something to work on while having a blast motoring. That's what it's all about, right? Happy motoring.

My favorite european car would have to be...a bugatti veryon 16.4, beautiful car. The newest model coming out looks to be even better.

Koenigsegg CCR
have a very cool style and is really powerfull...
V8, Supercharged
806 bhp
1180kg
top speed:more than 395km/h
0-100km/h: 3.2sec.

ccr aswell, i agree

ccr aswell, i agree

There's no doubt how fast it is, but the styling does not appeal to me, Doesn't really flow.

agreed on that one

i like the first generation Koenigsegg with a ferrari F40 engine :twisted:

for me it would be the maserati mc12

My favorite european car would have to be...a bugatti veryon 16.4, beautiful car. The newest model coming out looks to be even better.

It looks good, but it's been delayed so many times, it's ridiculous.

Ford Mondeo ST220: Great handling, neat styling and a lovely throaty V6! Nice interior too! Its cheap to buy and will have enough space for my mates on a booze cruz!

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!! I really dont have a favorite euro car because i am European! (thumbs up to dat!) heh....Anyways...if i had to pick...i wouldve just said.."everyone there is" haha...not fair eh? to you peopleit migh not be,but to me hellz yeahz its it fair! Who here agrees with me? Hey peoples if you wanna chat then just give me a holla whenever you find a way or you feel like it..you people sound nice to talk to! :D Holla atchya gurll! byebye

So what exactly does AZ stand for? (As in you location) Wouldn't that be Arizona?

well... in that case isn't like every caucasian american european?

i'm european too!!!! well...actually i can say that because i used to live in england

i have to agree with faisal the MC12 is pretty hot. i wouldnt mind a CCR either.
but for an everyday driver i would go with an M3 CSL.

i have to agree with faisal the MC12 is pretty hot. i wouldnt mind a CCR either.
but for an everyday driver i would go with an M3 CSL.

Everyday driver: M3 CSL? I know DTD might agree with me, but those tyres would not be up to the challenge of daily driving.

i have to agree with faisal the MC12 is pretty hot. i wouldnt mind a CCR either.
but for an everyday driver i would go with an M3 CSL.

An M3 CSL for an everyday driver? I know DTD might not agree with me, but those tyres would be so unsuitable for the road it wouldn't be funny.

i have to agree with faisal the MC12 is pretty hot. i wouldnt mind a CCR either.
but for an everyday driver i would go with an M3 CSL.

An M3 CSL for an everyday driver? I know DTD might not agree with me, but those tyres would be so unsuitable for the road it wouldn't be funny.

we have good year eagle f1's on my dad's car and it gets 25,000+ miles a year [tires are changed every 10,000-15,000 miles]

we have good year eagle f1's on my dad's car and it gets 25,000+ miles a year [tires are changed every 10,000-15,000 miles]

. . . point being?

The M3 CSL has basically slicks with little grooves cut into them just so they can be road-legal. They are Michelin Pilot Sport Cups which are made for trackracing and are very very soft. They are also about AUD$1000 a pop as well. :shock:

we have good year eagle f1's on my dad's car and it gets 25,000+ miles a year [tires are changed every 10,000-15,000 miles]

. . . point being?

The M3 CSL has basically slicks with little grooves cut into them just so they can be road-legal. They are Michelin Pilot Sport Cups which are made for trackracing and are very very soft. They are also about AUD$1000 a pop as well. :shock:

my point being is eagle f1's are barely tires also, but they get drvin alot

They're both handcuffed slicks but i'm thinking the M3 CSL would shed them quicker

well bmws are a very good daily driver. my gramps 1989 325i convertible has 214,000 miles one it and the only thing thats ever gone wrong with it is that he had to replace the clutch after 150,000 miles. im sure the csl would be a good daily driver as well.

I would go for a McLaren F1 LM XP1, the orange version with the black OZ wheels.
Imagine driving that thing while the 12 cilinder BMW engine roars behind you.
The car has great lines, very agressive design... It's great.

If not an F1, I'd choose the Porsche 911 Carrera 4S or the Porsche 911 Turbo, both of the 993 generation.
The 993 is to me, the best looking Porsche ever.

the new 997 looks ALOT like the 993, i guess the 996 design ddint work out :lol:

and yes, the 993 911 Turbo S is a great handling/driving car

koenigsegg ccr tied with aston dbr9

koenigsegg ccr
you know, I would never have guessed... :p
and you spelt Koenigsegg wrong in your name :D

yes i HATE ferrari but i love lamborghini

Never saw that one coming.

billy101
i am deeply impressive by your deep and philosophical posts http://img18.exs.cx/img18/7203/tetine3un.gif

This Is Hard Theres So Much To Choose From, Lets See, Koegnigsegg CCR, Bugatti Veyron, Rolls Royce Phantom, Jaguar XKR, Lamborghini Diablo, Porsche CGT, McLaren Mercedes SLR. So Heres My List
Fav HyperCar:McLaren F1
Fav SuperCar:McLaren Mercedes SLR
Fav GT Car :Aston Martin DB9
Fav Classic :Jaguar E Type
Everyday Runaround:TVR Tuscan S(Best Engine Noise Ever!)

I'll tell you at each category the best car.Firstly i think that the best car for a big town is the new a3 sportsback .in the middle category i think that e'class of mercedes is the best.what about the limos now?i think that s'class is the best seller .if i could,i 'd buy maybach 62 .from the sports cars i think that sl 55 amg ,lamborghini murcielago, ferrari f430 and porsche gt2 are very good and fast cars.but the best sport car is slr-Mclaren!

Thanks for not killing off an old thread reborn. This newbie is still trying to catch up with you folks.

This is a tough question. Here are a few nominations for best Euro Car EVER:


Oldest 4 door sedan that still turns heads for its beauty: early Jaguar XJ6

Best looking classic sports car: Ferrari 275 GTB4

Best looking race car EVER: Ferrari 330 P3/P4 (drool!)

Best street car to simulate a real real race car with only a few stickers and numbers:Ferrari Dino 246 GTS

Most outrageous race car ever built and tested, but never raced: Porsche (type # unknown/unassigned) powered by an aircooled 6.9L H-16 with twin turbos producing 2000 HP (yes, 2000 HP !!!).

Most practical real world exotic: BMW M1

Most practical back road burnerr: BMW M3 E30

Ultimate back road burner: Lotus Elise

Ultimate dirt road car: Lancia Delta S4

Ultimate supercar (tie): McLaren F1/Ferrari Enzo

I would say that for everyday use, a Ford Mondeo TDCi Ghia X covers it preet well. But, I'd have a Lambo Murcielago. It looks really cool and has useable and impressive performance thanks to that AWD and V12 engine.

Ford Mondeo ST220: Great handling, neat styling and a lovely throaty V6! Nice interior too! Its cheap to buy and will have enough space for my mates on a booze cruz!

You already said which was your favorite european car, silly.

And would that insane porsche race car be the 917/30? Or maybe it was something like it.

the best car is a tvr tamora

the best car is a tvr tamora
care to give a reason why?

Supercar: Porsche Carrera GT
Exotic: Porsche 911 GT3 RS

Not a tamora, a sagaris or t350 maybe.

Best looking race car EVER: Ferrari 330 P3/P4 (drool!)
Amen brother (don't forget the 412 P that sat between the two)

Ummm, i'd have to say the best looking race car ever was the 917K. No doubt about that in my mind. Maybe the 908 longtail.

My favorite European car ever is the BMW Coupé, the E30, I just like it so much , it's a timeless car, so beautifull, I also like the convertible, actually I like all BMW coupé's they just know how to make beautifull coupé's, I own a BMW 318IS Coupé and I'm very happy about it.

Ummm, i'd have to say the best looking race car ever was the 917K. No doubt about that in my mind. Maybe the 908 longtail.
The 908 looks like the the sucker car. Flat. Which 917 by the way? Short nose, long nose, short tail, long tail, 2 engine can am?

The 908 looks like the the sucker car. Flat. Which 917 by the way? Short nose, long nose, short tail, long tail, 2 engine can am?

the 1970 917K was my favorite. The K means kurzheck i think, which means "short neck in german. I dont know if thats true, but i think it's a good guess. When i picture the 917K, i think of the one driven in the movie "Lemans" by steve McQueen.

I think some of the most beautiful race cars were in the 917 series. I think the first 917 in 1969 was probably the most beautiful. The Langhecks were very pretty too, the best of which being the 1970 917L. I dont know much about the different engines. I knew they ranged from 580hp-630hp flat 12's in the lemans cars and like 900hp-1500hp or somehting like that in the can am cars.

and i dont know the difference between long nose and short nose. I can only tell the difference by the tails.

I don't know if i posted here, if it's about modern cars, in terms of design i take the Zonda, or the Hispano Suiza (looks at the rear of the car and you will get me)

As for earlier models, i take the DB4 (i think) Zagato and the Sierra Cosworth 2wd, i got beaten by one badly and i remember how it took that hairpin, was so impressive that i'm waiting for the guy to seel the car to give it a shot :p

the 1970 917K was my favorite. The K means kurzheck i think, which means "short neck in german. I dont know if thats true, but i think it's a good guess. When i picture the 917K, i think of the one driven in the movie "Lemans" by steve McQueen.

I think some of the most beautiful race cars were in the 917 series. I think the first 917 in 1969 was probably the most beautiful. The Langhecks were very pretty too, the best of which being the 1970 917L. I dont know much about the different engines. I knew they ranged from 580hp-630hp flat 12's in the lemans cars and like 900hp-1500hp or somehting like that in the can am cars.

and i dont know the difference between long nose and short nose. I can only tell the difference by the tails.
The Can Am cars, the 917-30s were the 2 engines with the 'box in the center. Most 917s were long noses and the Pink Pig is one of the few shorts. It DNF due to tansmission trouble at Le Mans. The long tails were the quickest Le Mans cars getting around 250-260 mph but handling was lost

I can't pick just one.

My TWO favorites Euro cars of all time are:

The Jaguar XJ13
An amazing car. 500 hp V-12 engine. Beautiful styling. Amazing sound. Rather rare (only 1 ever made.) I saw this car driven on Speed Channel's Victory by Design. Some of the most amazing car porn ever.
http://www.larsonweb.com/car/xj13.jpg


My other favorite is

Ferrari 275gtb NART Spyder. I think that this is the most elegant and beautiful convertible ever made. Wonderful lines, a Ferrari V-12 engine, and it was one of Steve McQueen's favorite cars. Cars just don't get any better than the NART Spyder.







http://www.larsonweb.com/car/275gtb_nartspyder.jpg

There was only one NART spider and that aint it. There were 6 spiders only one of which was a NART racer

The Can Am cars, the 917-30s were the 2 engines with the 'box in the center. Most 917s were long noses and the Pink Pig is one of the few shorts. It DNF due to tansmission trouble at Le Mans. The long tails were the quickest Le Mans cars getting around 250-260 mph but handling was lost

Oooooooooooohhhh. I get what you mean with the long nose and short nose cars. The short nose ones had the wide, almost square intakes on the front, and the long noses had the more elegant nose. I get it.

And that XJ13 was q piece of work. I read it was destroyed though. Pitty.

There was only one NART spider and that aint it. There were 6 spiders only one of which was a NART racer

The picture is a 275 GTB NART Spyder, sometimes referred to as a 275 GTS/4 NART Spyder. There were at least 9 produced (some sources say 10). They were specially commissioned by Luigi Chinetti, the North American importer for Ferrari, and sold exclusively in North America. The car was based on the 275 GTB/4 Berlinetta, but was converted into a spyder by the coachbuilder Carrozzeria Scaglietti. Mr. Chinetta also ran the North American Racing Team (NART), and this special production run convertible was christened the "NART Spyder" in honor of his racing team. If you would like a (quick) look at the car, it appears in the movie, The Thomas Crown Affair (the original one, with Steve McQueen.) That particular NART Spyder is McQueen's own car.

I think that you are confusing this 275 GTB NART Spyder with another car, perhaps a North American Racing Team car that Chinetta campaigned.

[QUOTE=jimkk29]If we're talking about the best car without thinking of practicality etc, then for me it's the McLaren F1 (LM).
If we do take into consideration issues such as practicality, everyday driving etc, then I'd choose the M3 coupe.[/QUOTE i like the mazda rx-8 i think it is a nice afordable sports car that can show off with the suiscide doors but there also their for a reason so id go for the rx-8

The picture is a 275 GTB NART Spyder, sometimes referred to as a 275 GTS/4 NART Spyder. There were at least 9 produced (some sources say 10). They were specially commissioned by Luigi Chinetti, the North American importer for Ferrari, and sold exclusively in North America. The car was based on the 275 GTB/4 Berlinetta, but was converted into a spyder by the coachbuilder Carrozzeria Scaglietti. Mr. Chinetta also ran the North American Racing Team (NART), and this special production run convertible was christened the "NART Spyder" in honor of his racing team. If you would like a (quick) look at the car, it appears in the movie, The Thomas Crown Affair (the original one, with Steve McQueen.) That particular NART Spyder is McQueen's own car.

I think that you are confusing this 275 GTB NART Spyder with another car, perhaps a North American Racing Team car that Chinetta campaigned.
There are only six left i read and there was one specialy bodied race car

Dificult question...it could be the koenigsegg CC8S, or the enzo, or the mclaren f1, or the noble m400, or the tvr speed 12...
i dont know its hard to tell

Euro classic car are the greastest, Ferrari 250LM and Jensen Interseptor would be my choise but for new cars, Bmw M5, TVR stagaris, Ferrari enzo, porsche GT and the iconic 911...the list goes on?
_________________
:smt069 (that looks fun)

Which Interceptor, 383 or 440?

I love the old Ferrari Daytona Spyders

Which Interceptor, 383 or 440?
Well the only interseptors that were produced were, the FF, which was 4wd, the standard Interseptor which i belive was the first car to deveope proper disk brakes and fit that to a standard car, and the convertable which is a beauty, imo id much perfer it to any aston or alfa as a GT car of that era.

Heres one forgotton Gt car of the 1970s, an Alfa romeo montreal, a 2.6L V8 powers that unit and the noise is trully amazing!
16000 euros and it your's

I would have a say a 1988 BMW M3.

1st place ; Mclaren F1
2nd place : Mini (the original)
3rd place : BMW M5 (2004 version)

...There is no 2004 M5....

Sorry... I forget that the new M5 is only goes to sale in 2005... has it turned official in 2004 i considerer it as a 2004 car...

...There is no 2004 M5....
Welll..the E39 M5 :)
_____________
' the gimme back my avatar fund ' :(