I find that americain cars are powerful but not that nice i find that the niceat cars are when they come from Germany :!: :P

i agree ......
german cars are the best ....
some of the american cars are pretty good but i dont really like them ...
there engines are huge like 5.7 liters or what ever with not that huge power ...
the handling in the ameran cars are usually not that good compared with other sports cars .....
generally i dont like amercan cars that much 8)

when you say german cars are best...
I agree they are best for 4 dr saloons (from BMW Mercedes and Audi), but I dont think so for sports cars.
the italians have that.

All in all Europe has the best cars than any other continent, i think im safe to say that!!

i agree with you somehow ........
the italians are great with SuperCars.... not sports cars...
u cant forget the M3 and M5 or the AMG... oh that would be tunning...
ok how about Porsche ..??? its better than most american cars i know ...u cant compare it with a lamborgini ... honestly i think u can but a tunned one... or a GT version ...

any ways i accept it that the italians are better in Supercars... but dont underastimate the german .... :wink:

...just to clarify I was talking about the best... not just who's good
BMW/Porsche are good, but not the best! :) :)

GT3 !!! is only a good car...
sorrry mamte ur wrong!

I don't like American cars because it's big and ugly . Also they have big engines with big consumption. If you have a gas station it is ok then. German cars are great.

Being direct i can only say that european cars beat by far the americans in all issues. The only reason i think they´d be proud of their cars, is their classics.
And honestly, i think japanese cars can always have a word on who wins the overall contest.

japanees cars are good for tunning :wink:

GT3 !!! is only a good car...
sorrry mamte ur wrong!

When I say the above, It's a total generalisation. The GT2/GT3/Turbo are all fantastic but i was just saying in general, italians have better supercars :) .

in general yep ....
but the super cars than germans manufactor i like better than most italians....
i like porsche ....specially if its tunned by RUFF :wink:

dont you mean RUF?

I know what you mean; have you seen the new Porsche Carrera GT? It actually is the best looking car in the world. In addition it has 612Bhp...

sure i saw it .....
but it takes u 2 years to get the car from the moment u order it !!!!
thats ****ed up man!

At least its better than the Enzo...
You cant get an Enzo no matter what, you have to have a collection of ferrari's before they'll even consider selling you one!

that aint a super car....
its a formula 1 based car :twisted:

that aint a super car....
its a formula 1 based car
Dont quite know hwat you mean there
sure it has some design elements from F1 and an paddle shift , but that's where the F1 influence stops...

its was somekind of a joke mate ....
the wings.... the airo dynamics ..... look at the car ... and see ... its like a formula 1
and this is the best car that have element compared with the formula 1 ...

As I said some design elements.

But the aerodynamics, absolutely not.... I dont see any front wings or even a rear spoiler for that fact!

It doesnt even resemble an F1 car, so I dont really see how they can share aerodynamics.

see the front of the car....
how's the body shape (wings ) over the front weels ...

...there is no wing over the front wheels...
yet the air intake does suggest F1, but as I said before there are just some design elements. - Its not an example of aerodynamics borrowed from F1. :)

its not an F1 car.... but its the closest car to the F1 :wink:

hmmmm withour being twisted I think the F50 was closer...

becouse of the HUGE spoiler in the rear :)

...and it was just simply designed around an F1 car more so than the Enzo.

i dont agree....
but its only what we think .....
both of them still aint formula 1 cars :lol:

agree or not... its fact 8)

i will be glade to get any of them ...
but not as much as a formula 1 car 8)

What about Japan!?
They can make sportscars to !
I would say that Viper is the nicest car the americans have ever made..!
But the Ford Mustang is really nice, if you make some adjustments
some places! :wink:

the best car the americans made;
either the 1969 Mustanfg
Or the Current day Ford GT40

I seen the concept GT40 at the NEC not so long ago and it looked brilliant, but they replaced the 5.4 500hp V8 engine with one that allowed the car to go no more than 15mph. It was the same one that was on Top Gear a while back, for the UK readers amoung us.

i dont usually like the Viper or the Mustang.........
but agree the GT40 is pretty nice

what about the saleen s7?
on R&T it accelerates(0-60 3.3secs) faster than a McLaren..
but i still love the old Mc :P

saleen s7, yeah it certainly looks cool, but there's something not all there, taht makes me not like it, in the way i like a McLaren. It definetly doesnt have the image the mclaren has; and It certainly wont have the impact cars they way the mclaren had. - buit maybe thats expecting too much form the car... i does cost a 1/4 of the price!

Saleeen is a fantastic car....
but in general americans arent that good in cars.....

you cant knock it just because its american!
Its an american car, but europeans designed it, and therefore it was built with ceartain european qualities.

i hate american cars for a couple of reasons...

1st they have low Hp while the engine is big ..... example the viper! 8 liter and 450hp!!

2nd most american cars really suck with handling ( most of them ) ....

3rd american cars get old fast ... and the car gets aparts quieck ....

if u have an other opinion i would love to hear it !

This conversation is typical of ignorance and lack of experience with cars in general. Do any of you actually own a sports car? How about even ridden in one? Ever turn a wrench on a car at all? Gran Turismo on your PS2 does not count kidies. Here are some FACTS you can chew on before you spout more BS.
The Corvette gets better mileage than the Honda S2000 accoring to the stickers on the cars. Here is a clue. The fuel an EFI car uses is proportionate to the power it makes. Its unavoidable no matter where the car was built. Power comes from fuel and air mixing. My friend's WRX gets 14mpg when he's getting on it a lot. Also, if you can't afford the gas then you can't afford the car. In the vernacular "Hate the game, not the player".
Did you know there was a class action lawsuit against Lamborghini by owners of the Diablo for poor workmanship? A quarter million dollar car with a leaking sunroof and doors that would not open. Workmanship/dependability aside, they are more handbuilt pieces of art than cars. Blindly calling them greater than Porche and by default any American car shows how shallow and uninformed the thinking process is here. Also, the quaity rating of Lamborghini's improved drastically when they were bought by an AMERICAN car maker. Hello? Yes, Chrysler was subsequently purchased by Mercedes and to that I ask you if you count Chrysler/Dodge in the ranks of the inferior still? Does that question put your few communicating brain cells in a quandry?
This board is more of a benchracer, my magazine is faster than your magazine, riceboy wannabe forum than anything to do with actual informed car discussion. Back to your Matchbox collection gentlemen.

at least my experience with american cars aint good
i hate and think all pontiac cars are like ****......
i drove all trans am that i know ....... the are pretty shitty with handling...
the power is there becouse of the outragous engine..... but the output hp of the engine is low for the size !!!
i said in general ...... corvett i respect... the have good handling ...... or great for the matter offact.. but i was talking about the magority.....
and sorry the benz even if it was bought by an crysler or what ever its still german ..
and i wont dare to compare the benz with crysler ......!!

. Also, the quaity rating of Lamborghini's improved drastically when they were bought by an AMERICAN car maker.

Lamborghini is owned by Audi, which is woned by VW

White the points you make are, as frizlefry says, pure ignorance!
You say you hate all pontiacs, where in Israel have you had a chance to drive one.

the power is there becouse of the outragous engine..... but the output hp of the engine is low for the size !!!

Why do you keep saying that!
Americans do thing differently to us. There fuel is sheaper, so they can afford to use methods of uping the power unefficently - Fuel is more expensive in europe so we have done thing differently
White Different Market different Buyer.
American car weren't designed for us, so we can judge them on our terms!

Im an American and I even think American cars suck. As for trucks...well a different story completely. With the exception of Holden (really GM), the vette, the Mustang, and the Viper, there really isnt much for America to brag about...and we invented the automobile! Now as long as most of us arent millionaires, we should really think about cars in most peoples price range. For that the Japs go everyone beat. For those making more money, the Germans definitely have the advantage. I personally like autos on the 50K range. Plus they are fun to tune. As for the supercars, yes Italians (except McLaren...who still have a bad ass car) win it. But who has money for a damn Lamborghini?

Im an American.......and we invented the automobile!

No you didnt!
Mr Benz did, Forming Mercedes Benz... he was German/Austrian.

Anyway as for Ford, they could be described as American, and they're the Largest selling car ever. - so thats something!

As fo rthe supercars, I guess that's the point of them, most of us will never own one. :(

sorry mate u miss understood me....
i ididnt drive only one american car...
i made an example............
i drove alot of them ... the ( the names are the names in my country so sorry if u dont understand) the sunbird.... firebird.....i hate the ford tarus (american manufactored) the cavaleer .... all of them ....
and i ****en hate it ...! when im in a 3400 pontic racing with a passat ... the pontiac cant get above the 190 km limit while the passat gets to 210 km and screw us around in the corners !!!

Just got a 2003 Cobra - Looking fwd to leaving yuppie scumbags in their M3s and M5s in the dust. Buy a rice burner or a german car? - never. You can continue with your anti-American arrogant, smug rantings, but at least I supported an American company who employs American workers who are a little better able to feed their American families. If you don't like me or my car, **** you.

...ok white might not like cars, but he doesnt deserve that kind of abuse!

when you say you got a cobra... you talking about the AC cobra?

i spoke my opinion about american cars...........
if u dont like it or u have an other opinion .....
its ur right to say it.....
just dont **** around ... its a forum not a street....!!!

I guess there is debate on who actually built the first car. Just like debate on who actually discovered America. Maybe Ford was the first to "mass produce" automobiles. I dont recall. But we must take one other thing into consideration before overly bashing the American cars. They do what they are intended to do. Considering what they cost. (thousands less than your typical German auto) Americans do forgo the added quality for the price. But all European cars arent great. Take a look at your typical city rambler. The "Smart Car" or the run of the mill Peugot econobox. I dont recall all the brands but if it wasnt a BMW or a Mercedes rolling down the street it was usually a scooter or some matchbox car. And its also true that real performance will mean more gas guzzled. Your tupical V12 gets what....about 8 MPG? Bus I still believe we have a lot to learn from the Japanese as far a build quality and dependability go. The only thing we've taken from them so far is making our cars smaller and front wheel drive. Is that really better? [/b][/i]

just dont f*** around ... its a forum not a street....!!!

I hope you're not aiming that at me White! - I was sticking up for you. :D

Shane Mercedes built the first car/invented it , and then yes, Ford with teh model T, made it a thing for every man.

And you say what ive said before that people dont appreciate. - american cars just do what is suited for america!

[quote="G Mynko If you don't like me or my car, f*** you.[/quote]

nop mallon it wasn't for u ..chill out man...
and i still dont like american cars!!!

most guys said the amercan cars are bad , but like you see the american sports cars still in the markets so why?
Because
1) the american cars provide a low price.
2) high horse power (i am not compoaring the size of the engines But for the other car HP that you want compare with).
3)the cheap way to get a higher torqe is a bigger engine -and if you noticed the old cars have a high whight comparing to the new cars and that whight needs a high torqe and the bigger engine is still with the new cars as a mark for the american car.

now the german and japaneese cars are playing on the economic price so we see the stop of some american cars production lines and i think the american are search for a new way to there cars ( e.g. supercharged cars as mustang SVT , a fantasy design like the PT) I think all this returns as a binifit on the costumer . :D

i agree with SportCarsLover ther eat low price and a lot have horspower :!:
but i prefer german cars there way nicer but there some americain car are nicer than geman cars but i still prefer geman car but my favorite is japonese cars because there Evil :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

my favorite is japonese cars because there Evil

yup... the daewoo one evil mean looking machine

http://www.clubcar.gr/images/cars/images/daewoo%20matiz.jpg

Or not!?
Ha ha!! :lol: :lol:

in the same prise of an american i can get u a better car ( japaness or european )
for the EVIL Japanessssss u can see how ugly things can go !!
do catch him on the word guys :)

I don't like American cars because it's big and ugly . Also they have big engines with big consumption. If you have a gas station it is ok then. German cars are great.

some americans r good
like the shelby s and the dodges

i dont think marinko meant it as he hates all american cars (who could hate a GT40?).
Assuming hes from Europe like myself - id say european cars are just appeal to him more!

First and foremost to even discuss american cars ,i find tedious they shouldnt be aknowledged.When you argue about car performance and general motoring ergonomics they start ranting and raving about quarter mile times F*** QUARTER MILE TIMES that isnt racing RACING for you americans is purely about engineerical handling and performance for which i am glad too say is where we differ.
Also our econoboxes are what they are designed not to defeat twin turbo camaros but for people that want a to b travelling,italians only make good top end cars,france good runarounds,korea =s***,Japananese cars are extremely talented,but lack car feel and passion,swedish cars reliable and safe,german cars THE BEST PERIOD from audis and vw to beamers and porshe for price and engineerical performance second to none,Brit cars we made brilliant cars until our market was swept fom under us.No american cars stated,yes the 69 mustang a consumer classic and best sold cars ever IN AMERICA!,the gt40 and viper good cars but wheirs the auto complete variety package NON-EXISTANT.

[ CENSORED by Admin ]

The use of offensive language, when describing ANY country or it's citizens, is NOT allowed on this forum.

To Mr. Ferrari 4 Ever (and
People think like him), if u has a Ferrari – and u supposed to be from ur talking- others don’t.
And I will tell a surprise:
Ask any car expert (real one) what is the thing that makes some one prefer a non Italian super car on Italian one? He ans will be: It has the lowest quality and worst interior comparing to non Italian super cars –for traveling hah-.
Think why the new Lamborgini that produced under Audi are better the Diablo in all ways.

i diagree with u and every car expert you know about italian cars ....
1st of all italians are known for there great deisgn ...
2nd they are known with great supercars....
3rd supercars arent made for traveling~!

after all that u have said ... who do u think is the best supercars manufactors?!~?

send a message to BBC TopGear team if you want.

I am not saying its for traveling the other guy said that,
and best super cars comes from germany.
by the way I am not saying the ferrari are not hot car but the other cars are going wild also.
in the end how's get the cash will buy the one that makes him happy.

agree with that ...
i also prefer Geraman cars...
but i think Italain are better with Supercars....

Ferrari man seems a little overy pissed off. Chill out dude.

I could never afford a Ferrari or any car of its kind so I really dont care about them. Secondly there are great American cars. If anyone works on their own vehicle they will know that. But unfortunately there are more crappy american cars. But usually these are very inexpensive and general transportation. It hard to compare vehicle without comparing what you would pay for them. I think the Corvette is one of the greatest cars on the road. Cadillac also make a car that easily keeps up with is Japanese and German counterpart. The Viper is also another great. The new GT40 will kick some serious ass. The Pontiac GTO (Monaro) is another.
Considering the varied array of American vehicles out there, there definitely is quantity. But it doesnt take away from the fact that there is simply good engineering in the noted vehicles. The same company that makes 80% of vehicles that dont compare to your average german car also produce some very high quality cars that will rival or beat many cars offered in Japan or Germany.

One thing I also forgot to mention. To make a car in the US is a major pain in the ass. It has to pass so many pollution restrictions. Turbos have tarrifs on them. Five mile-an-hour bumpers. Air bags, seat belts, proper lighting, distance from the ground, the list goes on and on. Usually any Japanese, Australian, or European car that is first solely sold in those countries, usually has to go through a butt ton of modifications before it can be street legal in the US. Half the time that is why many cars never make it to US Shores. Thats why the Skyline, Supra, and many other are still in Japan. A skyline in the US goes from $80,000-$120,000 in the US. Supras didnt sell here b/c they were so expensive due to tarrifs on the turbos. I think these costs way heavily on what we drive.

hey man the GT40 and the viper cost some money, they are not that cheap either compare to the Ferri and all that others. especialy all of those companies are making cheap verisons for the people who want them. i dont' know about the GTO though.

white you are so correct. I checked out a skyline online yesterday. It cost over 50 grand to get one in the entry level. why...because the US doesn't want to compete with foriegn markets, so they jack the prices on foreign cars. IE 2004 Neon goes for about 12 grand. An entry level VW Jetta for about 17 grand. An entry Level Toyota Corrola for 16 grand and an entry level Tiburon for 16 grand. That is not even right

ive never thought of it like that - thats a good point.
But remember importing a car (or any product) from another country will always be subject to charges.

american entry level cars are so cheap because they are made from pig anus. They suck. The truth is, most of the american auto companies own parts of these japense companies. For example, Mitsubishi is tied with Chrysler, Mazda is tied with Ford and Honda is tied with GM. So, the theroy of america trying to make a monopoly of the auto industry is false.

Wow, hot topic! Still alot of chit-chat though :-p American cars are definitly not in the top 5 automotive manufacturers. But they are definitly improving. I cannot honestly advise against buying any new car on the market today for shoddy workmanship or unreliability, though Lemons and recalls still do come out more often than they should.

If given a choice of any car in a certain class, I would be of the pursuasion to have a foerign model. Now, this would be exclusively for American avaiable cars. American auto restrictions still allow for such killer apps. such as a Nissan 350Z, Subaru WRX, Mitsubishi Evo, and other higher performance sports cars for incredibly low prices for everything you are getting. When compared to and good European(mainly German) or Japanese brand, the American automobile falls on its face. While still lacking a great deal, the American automotive industry is improving as I said before, but it still has a long way to go.

)Rock it out(

Raith83 is very right.

If you'r going to buy a car from the USA get Saturn!! GREAT handling!! If you want more info check out this! And they have car without power and car with great power and then in the middle. :D

www.SaturnSpot.com

I agree. The foreign Factory automakers are better. But at least Americans can make it up in the aftermarket.

i diagree with u and every car expert you know about italian cars ....
1st of all italians are known for there great deisgn ...
2nd they are known with great supercars....
3rd supercars arent made for traveling~!

after all that u have said ... who do u think is the best supercars manufactors?!~?

I see your point, i agree in the 2 fisrt, but i think cruising a whole continent is the purpose, traveling long distances it high speeds, supercars are not intended for racing with some exceptions, they are not flat out racers, and the most racelike supercars are too damn expensive, considering the high price of a supercar, for example a diablo GTR.

Besides if you didn't know, there is a grwing number of american supercars, and they keep getting better, i'd take a Panoz Esperante over any Bimmer sports car, but i wouldn't take a Viper against a 360 Modena, but again, i would preffer the Ford GT over the Modena, and the Saleen S7 over the Murcielago

:arrow: FR500
Panoz Esperante ..... i dont know the car but from the name is seems like spanish :lol: :wink:

i know that the american cars are getting better ... but i think that the italians are still better ( in general ) ... altough you will have some exceptions .. :)

German cars are the best overall.

overall in all cars i agree...
in supercars i think italias are a bit better overall :wink:

That's because Germans do not have many supercars! Wait till they start producing some! :wink:

BTW, Porsches rock and kick ass!! :D

becouse of the HUGE spoiler in the rear :)

mallon is right mate, the F50 was closer to the 1995 F1 car than the enzo is to an actual F1 car, the Ferrari F1 has a V10, the enzo doesn't, the F50 in fact had the same engine as the F1 car, but limited to 8500 rpm i think.

i dont know about it but if you say so ...!

i think that each time Ferrari wanted to make a better car and after the F50 came the F60 so it should be better closer to F1 cars ,....

i dont know about it but if you say so ...!

i think that each time Ferrari wanted to make a better car and after the F50 came the F60 so it should be better closer to F1 cars ,....

mmmm, it's not that true, anyway, they are awesome cars, sure, the enzo has a lot resemblance to the F1 car, and a lot of transplanted technology, but as for the engine, the F50 had the same one as the F1 car

OK :idea: :!:

Ok yall, American cars r good, for a while, they fall apart after a lil while, ya italian cars r good SuperCars


:twisted: Tha Need 4 Speed :twisted:

-:*:-Tori-:*:-

Ok yall, American cars r good, for a while, they fall apart after a lil while, ya italian cars r good SuperCars


:twisted: Tha Need 4 Speed :twisted:

-:*:-Tori-:*:-

Italian cars break apart too, just nobody cares, they are great even then

i dont think marinko meant it as he hates all american cars (who could hate a GT40?).
Assuming hes from Europe like myself - id say european cars are just appeal to him more!

thats true, in general europen cars are better, and the brand have a better position, but there are a few american brand and cars that can be compared con europena cars.

low end Euro car companies can compare to the best American car companies, true :lol:

hey man the GT40 and the viper cost some money, they are not that cheap either compare to the Ferri and all that others. especialy all of those companies are making cheap verisons for the people who want them. i dont' know about the GTO though.

you can tink that the ford gt, vette and viper are really cheaper when you saw the performance of one of thise cars and the price and you compare that with one europen car, is a little bit less money..

:arrow: FR500
Panoz Esperante ..... i dont know the car but from the name is seems like spanish :lol: :wink:

i know that the american cars are getting better ... but i think that the italians are still better ( in general ) ... altough you will have some exceptions .. :)

Esparante have not meaning in Spanisch, but it seems to be that, I nowk that Panoz is an american bran 100%

I read recently that Toyota has surpassed GM as the largest automaker in the world. I dont have a favorite automaker. Some cars are better than others and some are junk. The problem for America is that while I may not buy a Toyota Camary, I would recommend them to anyone looking for a good reliable sedan. If the Americans made one that was of the same quality maybe I would reccomend it to them. Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru all seem to "get it" on what Americans want. They have nothing to prove to you or I. The proof lies in Consumer Reports and in the Sales numbers.

Simply put the Big Makers Shape up like this (my opinionsupported bu numbers and facts I have read from other publications)
* This assumes that all cars recived the requried maintinene on regular intervals and were not driven in an effort to kill them.
* I will not make judgements on asthetics for the mostpart because that is entirely dependent on ones opinion.

-Honda = Reliablity, Build quality and value are all benchmarks of this small but expanding brand. With Acura, thier Luxury market competes with other Japanese and German automakers. (Americans are certainly in third in this market)
-Toyota = This Giant makes every kind of car for every market segment. With thier low end Scion brand, thier practical toyotas, thier renowned trucks along with thier Lexus Brand, it is no wonder that they surpased GM
-Nissan = Nearly as diverse as Toyota but smaller. Thier quality has been behind the others previously mentioned. They also use thier luxury brand to compete with the Germans.
-Subaru = Tiny company with few options. This is supposedly changing but, they seem to continue being a small company for now. Qulity like other japanese makes is high.

GM
Killed off Olds since they had no distinct product anyway for many years. Nobody seemed to notice thier disapearance anyway. Buick and Ponitac are struggling to find thier niche in the market. Absorbing Saab and expanding Hummer seem like good moves so thier future seems a bit cloudy. Quality has been a problem here. It is sort of hit and miss. Some good and some bad vehicles. GM has some new products that show promise like the G6, soltice, the saturn redline products and the Cobalt. Still, reliablity and build quality are some things that needs to be kept an eye on despite the improvement.

Chevrolet = Cobalt shows promise. SSR interesting but not a hot seller.
Pontiac = The azteks died off a long time ago. This car should have done the same. Aside from that Joke, the G6 shows promise. So does the solstice. This is a company also in need of a better image. Maybe
Buick= Thier product identy makes one wonder who owns one exept your grandpa
Saturn = Up and coming. Increasing quality and value make this a brand to watch. Their broadening of their product offering is "just what the doctor ordered"
Hummer = How many gas guzzling vehicles does one need in thier product offering to compete. What is next for them? The H4 super econo?
Saab= In an effort to cut costs they have borrowed from other vehilces in the GM parts bin. It has worked ok for them. I am sure someone misses the 93 viggen.
Caddilac = GM has given this company a shot in the arm with the CTS-V, STS-V and the XLR-V. Finally something to compete with the M-cars and AMG offerings.

Ford Motor Company

This company has sadly allowed Lincoln and Mercury to Languish. Have they given up? Ford has new offerings that make one think that the they might be listening. One can hope so.

Ford = despite a semi uncertain future, the 500, Freestyle and Mustang seem to show promise and quality. Time will tell

In closing, I look forward to the debate this will cause. While I think I am right, these are mostly opinions. Prove me wrong.

Mercury = Almost no identiy, do they still exist?

Lincoln = Falling behind Caddilac.

Mopar

Dodge - Trucks are their bread and butter. The Neon has improved dramatically. Qualty is up since the Damiler purchase.

Plymouth - Dead but had little identity prior to its death. The Prowler was just not enough.

Chrysler = Front wheel drive is nearly gone and power is back. Quality is up too.

Niice post
Welcome to SCF
try to avoid bringing back such old threads, in the future ;)

Oh, and wtf "Americain" lol.

JESUS CHRIST, Oct 28, 2003!!!! :eek: